Hawaiian Music and Economics 101

Mat Rhodes · From: Lexington, KY, USA

I'll try not to be repetitive since I posted a similar thread under Music.

Unless I'm wrong, there aren't many Hawaiian music combos in the Mainland. It seems like a "niche" genre. So are those of you who play in these types of settings doing better than our Rock and Country cousins? I don't need to know figures. I just want to know if you're paying off your mortgages, putting your kids through college, and buying clothes and jewelry for your wives without too much assistance from a crappy day job.

Because if you're not doing any of the above, then I'm seriously thinking of keeping my steeling efforts limited to the "practice room" and for 1-2 hours a day tops. Yes, I love the art. Yes, I love the culture and history. And for a pasty, haole Mainlander, I've been a pretty serious student of the language itself for at least a few years. But I'm also a realist.

I know at least several of you have been faced with making a choice between a career that allows you to live a decent lifestyle and one that's like a cactus: it sure is beautiful from a distance but it hurts when I hug it for too long.

So fire away, guys.

Matt

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

I am in a Hawiian band in New England. i think like the only one or maybe one of two or three. We've done ok but, the real secret is marketing. Also find yourself some dancers.
Luaus, corporate gigs and especially think about a steady location with a polynesian theme to play at.

Bill McCloskey · Posted 24 Aug 2006 1:13 pm

Matt,

would you mind telling us how old you are?

Mat Rhodes · From: Lexington, KY, USA

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

There aren't a lot of Hawaiian combos, and it is definitely a niche market in the mainland USA. Face it - you don't make a lot of money as a musician with any instrument unless you're very, very lucky.
The last party my group played paid us $300 for two hours playing. And we got all the kalua pork we could eat! Good for a day, but those types of gigs come along every couple of months at the most.
There's no way I could make a living playing steel guitar given what I'm used to making and spending as a software engineer.
To paraphrase an old saying, if you want to become a millionaire playing steel guitar, start out with a billion dollars.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Bill McCloskey · Posted 24 Aug 2006 5:28 pm

Matt,

If you don't mind my saying, 37 is really past the age when you should be launching a music career in my opinion. The life of a full time musician is hard and really the realm of those in their late teens and early 20's. At 37 you are heading into your peak earning years, or should be. In my opinion you should be focused on a more stable career at this point in your life and saving for retirement. At 37 you have time to develop a real career. The chances of making it in music and starting at your age are next to none in my opinion, although I'm sure someone will point out the exception that proves the rule.

Music is a wonderful hobbie and you can get more enjoyment out of it when it is not your main source of income as many people will attest.

Just my 2 cents.

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

Hawaiian music on the mainland reached its peak in the thirties and forties. I can recall juke boxes with at least 4 or 5 Hawaiian 78 rpm records which could be played for 5 cents. Trying to make a "living" playing only Hawaiian music is pure folly in 2006. Very few, (other than ourselves), know that Hawaiian music even exists...especially the younger crowd who have the money to spend on entertainment. All they want to hear is rock or any form thereof. If I'm lucky, I'll get about 5 Hawaiian gigs a year which is why I took up the bass...lots of gigs to be had playing bass! Just enjoy what I feel is the most beautiful music and remember, there are better ways to starve !
http://www3.telus.net/public/lake_r/

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

From an economist view point Bill, that males sense but, don't crush his needs. You can make a decent living in your 50s. 60 and even 80s. It all depends on the type of gigging you do. Most of the musicians I play with are over 40.
The concept of music being a young man's biz really only applies to rock and even then some 40 year olds do ok. It really depends not on musicianship but, on business savvy. the fact that Hawaiian music is a niche market is a plus not a minus. There are tons of people doing parties and luaus and they hire steel drum bands only because, they don't know any better and they don't know they have options.
it's about networking with caterers event planners and and hula dancers.
It can happen. Will you be ultra rich, no but, you can make a decent living and since Hawaiian music IS such a niche music, you can actually charge more. Especially if you are the only one in your market. You are rare.

Brad, i don't know how big your combo is or how long you played for, nor your specific market but, i know that's a very low rate in any market for a GB gig, which is what any party is, you got paid a club gig rate. you should have gotten MUCH more. Of course the client's budget may not allow for it but, bands working too cheaply under cuts the whole market. People have to be made to realize by not going too low that live music and especially skilled and unique live music is a rare commodity worth the cost.

One god example is a classical group that plays ceremonies often charges as much as 200$ per hour per musician, easily. They play classical and that's a dime a dozen in most areas. Hawaiian, that's rare.
Think about DJs depending on the they charge as much as $3000 per gig.

Know your value and convey that to your potential client.

As a reference point I've been in the general business live music and DJ biz for about 12 years. I now only play old nostalgia music in two bands. Hawaiian and swing, hot jazz, tango and I DJ. However, I used to run a band that would play any style and customize ever minute of music for a gig. Think $6000 and up for a 4 hour gig. If I hadn't of had to stop for a few years due to my disability (arthritis) and switching from guitar to steel, I could have been making around $100k per year. the wedding and private function biz can be very lucrative. Will it be very lucrative in your area? Who knows. it could be. One key is make your own bookings. Find a place that would hold a monthly luau. Promote the heck out of yourself. that helps to book gigs. Theme weddings are popular and luaus are one of those themes. Find a function hall or a 100 that would be interested in offering a luau package with you.

The key is think outside the box and don't wait for gigs to materialize. Go out and get them. Gig as much as your energy, family commitments and desire allow. have fun. When it stops being fun, stop.

Mitch Druckman · From: Arizona, USA

Good sober advice from Bill. You sound like my father.

I think AJ has the right idea. If you have the courage, passion, and determination to be a professional musician, you should do it. It's not even about talent. Only a moderate amount of talent is required if you have the determination. 37 is not too old to make a living as a musician, unless you are trying to make it as a pop star sex symbol. Follow your bliss and have no regrets.

[This message was edited by Mitch Druckman on 24 August 2006 at 10:08 PM.]

[This message was edited by Mitch Druckman on 24 August 2006 at 10:17 PM.]

Bill McCloskey · Posted 25 Aug 2006 4:43 am

"Good sober advice from Bill. You sound like my father"

You should listen to your old man more often.

Remember he said he wanted to make a lot of money. I would no more encourage him to choose music as a career if that is his motivation than I would suggest taking a second mortgage on his house to buy lottery tickets. The lottery tickets have a higher chance of being successful.

And again, we are not talking about people playing music past the age of 37. We are talking about launching a new career in music after the age of 37. It takes a hell of a lot more than passion. Establishing a name so that people will come out and see you, building an audience, developing an act, hiring musicians, getting booked: these things take a tremendous amount of time, money, energy, resources, and the willingness to starve. Hardly the realm of a middle-aged man who has a mortgage and family.

You don't start a sports career at 37. You don't start a dance career at 37. You don't start a music career at 37. But that doesn't mean you can't play with a local band, do gigs, even play regularly.

And the fact that he would even ask the question (twice as a matter of fact) rules him out in my opinion. The people that make it in that industry are the people that CAN'T do anything else. As my old acting teacher used to tell me, if you have to ask if you can make it, you can't.

In my opinion, encouraging someone down a path that will harm his family and future is not good advice. In fact it is cruel.

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

There's a time for every purpose under heaven.

When you see an 18 year old kid hitch hiking through Europe what do you think? You think about the freedom of youth, the lure of the open road etc. etc.

What do you think when you see a 58 year old guy on the side of the road with his thumb out?

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 25 August 2006 at 09:00 AM.]

Mat Rhodes · From: Lexington, KY, USA

All of you make some valid points - thank you for the input. Especially yours, AJ - this was the most constructive and valuable. This has been a real eye-opener.

Gerald, wouldn't it be funny that the HSGA's mission of perpetuating the Hawaiian steel guitar came about not through an intent to educate the general public, but out of a "critical mass" of steel players' desire to pay the bills as per AJ's scenario?

[This message was edited by Matt Rhodes on 25 August 2006 at 11:49 AM.]

Kay Das · From: Los Angeles CA

Steel guitar, as compared with the more famous guitar, is regrettably a "minority" instrument. Hawaiian music is regrettably nowadays a " minority " art form on the mainland and other parts of the world. Hawaiian music with steel guitar triply regrettably is an even lesser known (and performed) genre of music....

To ensure a future,
(a) keep the "jewel" bright by advancing the art of Hawaiian Steel Guitar in Hawaiian music (new compositions, new players, teachers...). Note Hawaii Music Awards has a section for new steel guitar music...

(b) think of steel guitar as a generic instrument whose playing and art forms may influence other kinds of music and also be influenced and morphed by them.

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kay

Mat Rhodes · From: Lexington, KY, USA

As a side note, I believe Hawaiian music, or music with Hawaiian/Polynesian leanings, is poised for a major comeback. It likely won't be the way we're used to hearing it from the 30's to the 50's, but it'll be recognizably Hawaiian. I don't think this is just wishful thinking, either.

If you look at the settings of some shows like Real World, Strong Man competitions, Dog the Bounty Hunter, Lost you'll notice they're based in Hawai'i. Izrael Kamakawiwo'ole's music has been used in at least 5 movies as well as recent commercials like Rice Krispies among other products. He's even popular as a ring-tone download. A few movies of the last 5-7 years like "50 First Dates" and the other with Owen Wilson and Morgan Freeman (can't remember the others right now) are based there. Tourism is also on a fierce rise since 9/11.

So, George, because of this, I'm not nearly as pessimistic about Hawaiian music's future as I am about that of Rock and Pop. I think haoles will want to be reminded of one of the last, most accessible great places on earth when they're back in their sterile, humdrum Mainland lives. They've just been asleep to the music for too long.

Alright, enough ranting.

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Matt has done one of THE most important things already. Market research. Iz has been used in over a 100 different applications for TV and film. Easily over a 100. Lost is filmed in Hawaii as well. Oprah just bought land there. Luaus are picking up as a party theme. Tiki bars are making a small come back.

More importantly nostalgia is coming back in a big way.

let's see in the last 6 years these movies have come out

Chicago
The Aviator,
king Kong
head in the Clouds
Idelwild

There's more I just don't remember them all

So while the general public is fed up with 'new' Jazz, nostalgia jazz they seem to be in to. Probably because, it's more melody, less bebop run on solos.
So with a nostalgia movement happening and hula classes popping up everywhere as well as hula-robics videos coming out, Lilo and Stitch being a successful movie and weekly/daily cartoon, Hawaiian is definitely coming to the forefront and even old Hawaiian. Ukes are becoming popular as a quick instrument to get in to. So steel is going to do this as well and it is..slowly.

Bill i agree with some of what you're saying but, your 'a lot of money' is not everyone else's lol. Sure he's not going to be a multi-millionaire but, you CAN make a respectable living. Your comparison of sports to music doesn't fly because, you can be in a wheel chair and still be a successful musician. The whole thought process you're applying here is more of becoming a rock star concept rather than a working successful musician in a respectable income bracket.

I wouldn't recommend he quit his day job overnight and I would recommend that he do it with business savvy rather than how many musicians do this. Which is with a total lack of understanding of business, legalities, etc. Thats' why they have to hire managers and agents and they lose a lot of money doing so. Until they're making enough money that they can afford these people,. they should know how to do it on their own.

It also depends on if he wants to only play Hawaiian or is he willing to say split his time with that and a cover band. Cover bands make easily (per member) $100k per year if they are spectacular.

Which brings me to the biggest question you have to ask yourself Matt. Are you good enough?

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

George, I wouldn't even dream of catering to the younger crowd. We're talking 30s and up. There are a good amount of upper middle class to upper class people who find Hawaiian music peaceful and they only need more exposure to it.

We have that power and ability to do so. Keep a positive attitude. You never know what can happen. Trends go in cycles. It just needs to come around again.

For reference I am 32 but, heck I feel 80

Todd Weger · From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA

My trio, Wholly Cats!!! plays swing, jazz, jump, funk and surf. However, I also play steel, and my guitarist can play my bass (upright or electric) or uke, and my drummer also plays uke, so we put together an 'alter-ego' hapa-haole band called Haole Kats!!! Yes, the homophone of the words Haole and Wholly is, ahem... wholly intentional.

Our private and corporate rates start at $100/man/hour, and often are more. We always take each job into consideration.

We've done wedding receptions with a Hawaiian theme where they wanted Hawaiian music played for the cocktail hour, but regular cover stuff later, which we could do. We've also done a TON of private luaus and pool parties with the Hawaiian retro theme. Our biggest audience for this material is the tikiphile group. Basically, those who really are into the whole retro '50's style tiki vibe. The numbers for those folks is on the rise, and we get a LOT of work because of them.

This stuff, combined with the instrumental guitar based surf goes over really big. Oh yeah, we're about the ONLY ones in a 200 mile radius that can do both, too, basically giving us first call on most any gigs that need what we do.

It can be done, but it's hard. Like AJ said, you have to hustle gigs. Actually, learn to play about any style, and you'll always work (especially if you play bass!

)

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Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, A6, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Regal resonator (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); assorted ukuleles; upright bass

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Amen!

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

"George, I wouldn't even dream of catering to the younger crowd. We're talking 30s and up. There are a good amount of upper middle class to upper class people who find Hawaiian music peaceful and they only need more exposure to it".
~~~~~~~~~
AJ...I quite agree with your statement. However, please bear in mind the young folk of today who have absolutely little or no knowledge of what Hawaiian music is all about and frankly, could care less, will be the ("Hawaiian music ignorant") seniors of tomorrow. If they are not exposed to anything different, other than rock, (or variations thereof), what hope can we expect Hawaiian music to have in the distant future?

I challenge anyone to approach the young generation today on the subject of Hawaiian music. I'm reasonably certain all you'll get in at least 90% of the responses will be a blank stare. However most young folk will be aware of dixieland as the alternate to rock.

As a Canadian, I'm often perplexed wondering why the mainland USA music media industry does very little if anything to really promote the music of their most unique, popular and beautiful 50th state. New Orleans jazz (dixieland) can readily be heard somewhere on a regular basis on the mainland. Both of these states, (Hawai'i and New Orleans) have their own distinctive style of music, fantastic talents and great composers....even their own distinctive instruments: the banjo and the steel guitar!

I recall years ago, (about the time the Wright Brothers made their first flight)

, airline "stewardesses" (naughty word !)
"hostesses" dawned muu-muu's or some colorful garmet in the "Hawaiian style" as the aircraft left the mainland bound for Hawai'i.. Passengers could also enjoy at least one channel of Hawaiian music on their headsets as the flight winged its way towards the Islands. Upon landing and as the aircraft approached the gate along the runway in HNL, most aircraft intercoms usually played Hawaiian music. This gesture added to the anticipated enjoyment and excitement mood as the passengers preparred to disembark the aircraft. Today, airlines seldom if ever play any Hawaiian music at anytime on their flights. Their in-flight head set channels consist of New Orleans jazz, hard rock, soft rock, classical music, country western, comededians, plus the nations top vocalists, etc. Never any Hawaiian music on any flight to Hawai'i !

Perhaps I am in error, however I get the strong impression more Hawaiin music is being heard in Japan and Holland than on the mainland U.S. (or here in Canada for that matter).

I may have wandered off the subject of this thread which Matt posted for which I apologize. However I feel it is all related. Making a living playing Hawaiian music is not a very lucritive profession these days. Of course, this may all depend upon where you live I suppose.

[This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 26 August 2006 at 02:44 AM.]

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Think any young Hawaiians want to listen to a haole tell them how their music should sound? Keoki, you have a very romanticized view of Hawai'i. You'd like it kept sealed in a time capsule, as you've always dreamt of it.

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 26 August 2006 at 03:26 AM.]

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

Gary Boyett · From: Colorado/ Lives in Arizona

***

[This message was edited by Gary Boyett on 26 August 2006 at 07:55 AM.]

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Mr. Boyett, your comment is a slap in the face to Genoa Keawe, Nina Keali'iwahamana, Mahi Beamer, Kimo Alama Keaulana, Boyce Rodrigues, Iwalani Kahalewai, Gary Aiko, Momi Bee, Bobby Ingano, Alan Akaka, Ethelynne and Mona Teves, Mabel Kekino, Ainsley Halemanu, Kealoha Kalama, Kawika Trask, Robert and Roland Cazimero and other elders who have generously given guidance to me and other young musicians who are interested in preserving Hawaiian music of the 1930-1950s. There is much tradition being passed to the younger generation--more so now than ever before. Of course, if you are living in a place such as Colorado, I can understand how you might be blind to it.

I might make some observations on the way you live life out in your neck of the woods, but I would never be so bold as to tell you how to live it.

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 26 August 2006 at 06:06 AM.]

Gary Boyett · From: Colorado/ Lives in Arizona

You are so right Jeff in what you say. I do apologize. These are all great people that have worked hard to try to pass on your traditions. Young people like you understand these traditions. We have traditions out here in the west also. Some of which I am sure you would not understand.

My statement is that the elders do try but most of the young people don't want to listen. My own family members could care less about the traditions of the west. They want it fast, easy and free. (Yes, I am a native)

Younger people like you are the ones that will pass on this great music. They don't want to listen to us old guys. Again, I apologize if I offended you. I respect what you do.

Now back to the topic.

Mat Rhodes · From: Lexington, KY, USA

Out of respect to Jeff, Derrick, Greg, Paul, Bobby, Casey, and other gifted musicians I acknowledge the fact that most of the "Hawaiian" music that Mainlanders expect to hear is packaged in a way that caters to a tourist culture and mentality. I know that it has little, if anything, to do with the traditional Hawai'i that we see so much effort being put into being revived and maintained (i.e. land conservation efforts, language revival, the expansion of taro growing, etc.).

Jeff, I believe you even said yourself in an earlier thread that innovation is a haole concept and that Hawaiians are more about preserving tradition. If there is any resentment that still lingers, I hope that whatever I and other musicians do here in the future with regard to perpetuating the "myth in the music" is understood to be from a business and survival standpoint, not from a culturally insensitive one.

[This message was edited by Matt Rhodes on 26 August 2006 at 09:49 AM.]

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