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Topic: New amp or stay married? |
Jeffrey Shu
From:
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 10:52 am |
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For some strange reason, my wife doesn't buy that I need a new amp to go with my two Boogie .50 cals, JC 120, MusicMan 112 RD fifty, SWR Strawberry Blonde, PV KB/A 60, etc. (the multi-instrumentalist's curse).
Presently I'm playing my Dekley E9 through a Peavey TKO 65 - what I assume is a bass amp since I bought it from a bass playing friend. The 15" speaker is much better than the SWR I started with (I'm pretty sure my steel burned out the horn on the SWR). I like the bass response, but the TKO doesn't have on-board reverb.
I've been pouring over the forum talk about various amps for several days now. Two questions - first, can anyone suggest knob settings on this non-steel amp, esp. pre/post gain, presence, and shift?
And second question - am I better off paying $100 for a reverb unit or investing in a used Session, Nashville, or other more traditional amp (and subsequently convincing my wife not to divorce me)? |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 11:35 am
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Well, here's my opinion....If I were you (or could afford that many amps), I would.......
Sell off an amp or two, and buy a real steel amp. Whether tube, or solid state (your choice). Most all 6 string guitar, or bass, amps aren't voiced well for the typical country steel's needs, and don't allow the full range of the steel's voice to be heard. Of course, the style of music you will be playing make's a huge difference in the amp you need. For rock, or blues, a Deluxe or Princeton may be best suited for you.
If you could better describe what you want to do with you're steel, the forum could give you more specific advice as to which amps would fill your need.
If you like the sound you get from the TKO, then just buy a reverb/effect unit and enjoy. But if you're unsatisfied with it, I wouldn't bother trying to "fix" it....I'd replace it.
BTW, I play a Dekley, too, with a NV112...I'm into the beautiful sound quality of it, regardless of the style of the music. But I don't gig out anymore...just the occasional jam session.
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Best regards,
Mike |
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 12:41 pm
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Really, those TKO's don't sound half bad, especially if it's just a practice amp. I have had a few and found them to be very versatile. Add an outboard reverb like a Boss RV 3 or 5 and you have quite a handy rig.
I traded a wife for a Sho-Bud D10 The Professional once.... |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 12:47 pm
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That's dedication!! 
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 1:04 pm
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I don't have the time to come up with good material (you'd be a great comedy straight man) so i'll just cut to the chase----
I looked at the TKO 65 manual and the most important thing you can do to dial in a sound with it is to set the shift to around 800 and cut the mids. Maybe down to nuthin. Bass & treble half way up, presence--probably less than more. Keep the pre-gain under 5. The pull-pot boosts--experiment.
A Holy Grail would work well---especially in the FX loop where its noise issues will be rendered null (by my experience).
The over-riding issue: there is a reason why there is such a thing as a steel amp. There is an instant gratification thing when you plug into an amp that was specifically designed for steel guitar. At that moment you understand why there's a market for them. Yes, it might be that you are not cut in the mold that these are intended for. You've got to figure that out for yourself. But there's enough data out there in recorded steel guitar records for you to make a good guess. Is it traditional country, alt. country, rock and/or roll......what are you looking for? If it is indeed a traditional sound you need, tell the missus that it is a matter of national security that requires that you buy an amp appropriate to the task. Uncle Sam Wants You To Buy A Steel King and a Nashville 100 and a Webb and an Evans and on and on and on and on..... |
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Jeffrey Shu
From:
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 1:21 pm
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Good advice... though I'd like not to trade my wife quite yet - you lose so much value when you drive her off the lot. I'm playing honky tonk - trying for a "traditional sound," which is to say my ear is still struggling to identify the different options on steel. I use a little crunch on one song, but otherwise am going straight. I'm feeling like there's not much sustain in the amp I'm using, though, but don't know whether it's my pedal or left-hand technique that's the problem.
If I do make the jump, I'm DEFINITELY selling some of these other amps.
_________________
The Bo-Stevens (honky tonk/old country) & Tupelo Crush (Americana/rock)
'94 Marlen D-10 w/ chrome-wrapped BL 705s, Quilter Steelaire, '74 Fender Twin/JBL D120s. |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 3:03 pm
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| Sell an amp, then buy a pedal steel amp ....Jim |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 4:04 pm
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| As a multi instrumentalist you should know that each instrument needs an amp made for its unique needs. While it might be possible to find a guitar or bass amp that sort of works for steel, it is hit or miss; and if you have never played through a steel amp, you don't even know what sound you are looking for. The workhorses for steel are the Peavey Nashville series amps. If you watch the Forum for awhile, you can get a NV 400 or NV 112 for a few hundred bucks. There is a NV 112 for sale in North Carolina right now on the Forum. If you prefer tube tone, you need a big clean playing amp with 12" or 15" speaker. The silver face Fenders are great for steel, especially a Twin, Dual Showman, or Vibrosonic. If you have the instrument and are playing it, you owe it to yourself to get an amp worthy of it. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 4:59 pm
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Modern bass amps are voiced just fine for steel - with the advent of string popping, 5,6,7+ string basses and such manufacturers completely changed how bass amps were designed starting with the first SWR's in the 1980's. Almost any good bass amp is fine for steel, although the smaller practice ones aren't really a good choice, and personally I don't care for the Hartke aluminum speakers for steel - but if you like clean, they do it well.
I guess your investment in a steel amp depends on how much you play steel. If it's part-time, hit or miss think stick a Holy Grail in the signal chain and make your wife happy - because if the amp sounds good to you now, there's no reason to buy a "steel" amp just because it somehow makes you more of a "steel" player.
It certainly would not hurt to try a few - but I wouldn't dump your rig just because it doesn't say "steel" on it. Really think about if it works for what you play. If it works - use it.
As far as settings, you simply have to experiment. Settings change with every venue anyway, so there are no valuable "guidelines" unless they are based on similar conditions.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 6:45 pm
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It looks to me like you have plenty of amps that will work fine for steel already. The 2 boogies together or the musicman for smaller stages are great sounding. The JC120 will cover most any room and sounds as good as an unmodified nash400.
I know steel players that use borrowed bass amps for fly dates that sound great. Basicly just keep in mind that if it sounds good it is good.
You could buy a holy grail reverb and then take your wife out to dinner.
I personally do not own or use any amps made for steel at this point. I have an old fender showman with a 2/12 cab for recording and a reissue twin for gigs I will use till I wear it out.
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Bob |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 7:32 pm
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Gotta partially disagree with Jim on the bass amps. I play my pedal steels through every bass amp I run across, just out of curiosity. Most of them don't sound good compared to steel amps. Sometimes it is the amp voicing, but usually it is the speaker system. Counter intuitively, modern bass combos and speaker systems sound too trebly and harsh with steel. It's because they are designed with crossovers and horns for full spectrum sound, like PA speakers (which also sound harsh with steel), or they have 10" speakers (and maybe aluminum, like Jim says). They do that to capture string poppoing, natural picking noises, and high overtones that help string separation for bass. Most guitar speakers do not use crossovers and horns, and so automatically have some of the highs rolled off. It's just been found over the years that guitars sound better that way. While guitar amps usually have 10s or 12s, steel amps usually have 12s or 15s, so the highs are rolled off even more. Steel just sounds too harsh for most people through full spectrum speaker systems.
I looked up your TKO manual over on the Peavey site. It didn't describe the speakers in the spec. section, but in the diagram it looked like a single 15 with no crossover or horn. So that might be okay. But I don't know how the amp is voiced. Also, some bass 15" speakers are really lacking in highs (which is why they are often used with crossovers and horns) and so sound too mellow for steel. Peavey for example makes a different kind of 15" speaker for use with steel. It has a metal dust cap and is designed to sound a little brighter than the bass 15" speaker. Who knows, maybe Peavey boosted the highs in that amp to make up for not having a horn, or maybe they used the guitar speaker. So your amp might work okay for steel, or might not. I can't tell from the manual - I'd have to hear it. Try a steel amp sometime to have something to compare the TKO to, and make up your own mind.
I agree you don't necessarily have to have a steel amp. Like Bob H., I play through Fender tube amps designed for guitar - but the big clean tube Fenders were classic favorites of steelers a few decades back, so in a sense they are "steel approved." But steel amps are designed for steel, not bass or guitar. If I were you, I'd sure want to try one to see what I might be missing. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 25 Feb 2007 5:45 am
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| Steel amp...to go with the nice collection.. |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 25 Feb 2007 8:02 am
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...or you could buy an Evans pre amp and plug into into the effects return of any of your amps and get a decent to good "steel amp sound". Put the Evans in a rack with a stereo processor in the eff loop and use the two Boogies`power sections and speakers for a stereo setup etc.... Lots of possibilities !
_________________
Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Jeffrey Shu
From:
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2007 11:08 am RE
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I took Jon Light's amp setting advice last night playing a Cash Bash (John R, that is). Cutting the mids controlled the boominess but pulling the post boost knob kept it meaty enough. I'm wondering about the high end, having read the ongoing critiques of bass amps. The sound guy last night is a steel player as well, so he added some reverb through the PA. He plays a Fender 8-string through a Twin....
I have tried my Dekley through the Boogie - didn't spend too long trying to dial it in, but I didn't like it. Crunchy highs sliced through to the base of my spine. Still, could be a dialing-in issue.
I'm going to have to hunt down some of these amps to hear for myself while acknowledging that the price tag will probably be the dominant influence if and when I make the plunge. In the mean time I'll be happy I don't know what I'm missing.
Jeff
_________________
The Bo-Stevens (honky tonk/old country) & Tupelo Crush (Americana/rock)
'94 Marlen D-10 w/ chrome-wrapped BL 705s, Quilter Steelaire, '74 Fender Twin/JBL D120s. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 25 Feb 2007 1:58 pm
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My wife says if I buy another amp, she's gonna leave me.
I'm sure gonna miss her. |
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Tim Harr
From:
Dunlap, Illinois
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Posted 26 Feb 2007 5:52 am
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Jeff you described your amps ..but not your wife.. how are we supposed to help you make a decision........?
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