CAN most steelplayers play a decent bass?

Steven Welborn · From: Ojai,CA USA

I played six string most my life and of course picked up bass along the way. Bass is so critical and foundational. A good "feel" on the bass equals a good "feel" for the band overall. A good or bad bass will make or break a band generally speaking. Will make it easy or hard for you to play. Ive had a frustrating relationship with a "steel buddy" over the past ten years or so. You know...we'd work shop,gig, back each other up alternating steel and bass. I give good support on bass. His bass sucks. Ive backed up this "pal" off and on for over ten years.HE wont put in the minimal time to learn some decent bass technique. For gods sakes, a few minutes a day and in a few weeks would make a dramatic improvement. Well..I could gripe on and on..but I think the points made. It's a give and take thing.
SO...how many steelers can play an adequate bass and back up others?

Marty Pollard · Posted 28 May 2005 8:25 pm

I've been told that my bass playing is too 'jittery'.

I habitually play around the beat on steel and tele but not exactly ON the beat that often.

I think I carry this habit to bass.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

I can do decent bass, and despite also being a regular guitar player I don't do "lead bass".

Mark Krutke · From: Tomahawk, WI USA

Steve,

You are so right. Learning bass clef playing tuba and string bass during high school gave me a real appreciation for how the mood, personality and style of the song can be shaped by the bass in nearly all areas of music. And playing correctly has ALOT to do with getting that established. I enjoy Dave Smith's playing whenever he's with E.

It's a joy to get the opportunities to play bass for steel players here at the upper Midwest steel shows. I also enjoy playing steel along with bassists like Jerome Vogel and Jeannie (Dennis Detweiler's sister).

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www.authenticrecording.com

[This message was edited by Mark Krutke on 28 May 2005 at 11:49 PM.]

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

I play mostly the old stand up bass. That''s from my years with jazz. The world of jazz had a tough time accepting the electric bass for many years.

I also played the bass harmonica for many years.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 29 May 2005 at 12:05 AM.]

Al Carmichael · From: Sylvan Lake, Michigan, USA

Always loved bass and my appreciation has grown over the years. A band with a lousy bass player will always sound rough. I play bass at home when I record tracks and that really gave me an appreciation for how important it is to the feel and texture of the music.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

for the most part , many musicians, such as guitar players, think or feel they can play the Bass..some even think they can and don't even own one.

A quality musician can pick out a real BASS player in mili seconds..and a non Bass player in less than mili seconds.

I see this conversation a little pig headed..

If you are a bass player and playing as much as possible under the 5th fret you are at least in the ball park...if you are a Bass player and are playing it like a Guitar, lots of activity above the 5th fret..I would ask..What are ya doin' way up there ?

Most quality Basses come alive under the 5th fret especially over there on the D and G stings..

The straight ahead answer from me on this quesstion is NO...most players of other stringed instruments are NOT quality Bass players.

Being a Bass player requires a totally different discipline than playing a Lead Instrument. Generally when a guitar player picks up a Bass the worlds collide...

Of course this is not true of all players, but generally, ...it is..

you wanna find out if you are a Bass player, ? Try playing behind a Grand Piano playing in Eb and Ab ...

I personally think it's pretty rude of a player to tell folks they are a player of BASS..when they really are a Guitar player or maybe a Steel Player. It tells me two things right out of the gate, they don't know what a good Bass player is and they have limited respect for real Bass players.

I told you I had a pig headed view on this...

here it is in black and white..

A quality Bass player along with the drummer should be able to play the enire song without any other Instruments..the other musicians who are not playing should be able to jump in and out at anytime ....the song stays intact..

t

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I've played bass in bands. I played bass in a New Orleans style dixieland bass for a year. I've done several recording sessions with bass and did my own bass on both of my Steel Guitar Instrumentl CD's. The first Bass I played was a Blonde Upright Kay Bass.

I don't know about "below the 5th fret" as I've seen some great "country" bass players that get up a little higher. Bob Moore is one tht comes to mind and he's been on more recording sessions than anyone, including Elvis, and many pop sessions, not just Nashville "country" sessions.

I agree that you don't play "lead bass".

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

I've been told my bass playing was ok but I never felt comfortable doing it. I respect a good bassist, they don't have as much room for faking as most other instruments; if they play the wrong changes or get ahead or behind the beat the whole thing is screwed.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Sierra Session D-10
http://www.Charmedmusic.com

JW Day · From: Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA

I made my living playing music for a number of years. being able to play more than one instrument allowed me to support my household. a basic knowledge of chords should allow a person to play bass, staying on meter is a must with any instrument. listen to big E on some of his bass work.sounds pretty good to me.

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

I used to be a pretty good bluegrass upright bass player, but we played a lot in B and Bb, and F, so I was frequently above the imaginary 5th fret---but that's bluegrass---and ANYBODY that knows three chords can play bluegrass, right???

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Any instrument, piano, guitar, and good theory can make playing bass an easy transition. I think everyone should do a little bass duty just to get the idea.

And it's not entirely true that there is more room for mistakes; unless you're drunk, you have a 50/50 chance of hitting a note that will be a good passing tone to somewhere.

But then, I have play a fretless, so I guess that ups my chances of hitting a 'wrong note.' Not to fear, just slide up a little....

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

I'm a better bassist than steel player at this stage of my steel journey, but my .002 centavos-

Good bass playing makes the band and vice versa.

Bluegrass bass look simple- "three chords, duh!"- but where most fail is in the timing. It's not good enough to play "in time", you have to know (feel) WHERE in time to place the beat.

Try this simple exercise: with the metronome clicking, play RIGHT ON the beat. Now, play a little BEHIND the beat. Now play a little AHEAD of the beat. Each time, you are staying relatively in time to the metronome, yet the FEEL is totally different.

It's being able to play in front of the beat, without speeding up, that makes a great bluegrass bass player, from Cedric Rainwater to Todd Phillips. It's all in the timing. Problem is, many bluegrass bands (not the big names) have bass players who are failed fiddlers or failed other instruments who bring a sagging sense of rhythm in-and the band is only as good as the worst player, timing wise- and timing is everything, especially in a bluegrass band where there is no drummer. The bass player's rhythm is really crucial in this situation, and it's no place for a weak musician...

Mingus, Pederson, Brown, Chambers, Pettiford, ...etc. etc. the great jazz players have incredible rhythm and are a joy to listen to- real groove and you can't fake da funk!

Same thing with your local country band- a good bass player, with a good pocket of time, and a sympathetic drummer who is a real musician with EARS playing in a band with other musicians with EARS- man, that's heaven! And vice versa!!!

Shameless plug- I recently did a DVD with fellow forumite Andy Volk on this subject called "Rhythm Tune Up" available thru my website below.

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by John McGann on 29 May 2005 at 06:34 AM.]

[This message was edited by John McGann on 29 May 2005 at 06:36 AM.]

[This message was edited by John McGann on 29 May 2005 at 06:39 AM.]

Paul King · From: Gainesville, Texas, USA

I guess every steel player I have played music with can play bass guitar. There is one gentleman, whose name I will not mention, that is a forum member and is an excellent bass player and a fantastic singer as well. Very rare to find all those qualities in one individual.

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

Buddy Emmons has played a lot of gigs on bass. That should answer the question in Vern Gosdin fashion. "THAT JUST ABOUT DOES IT, DON'T IT ?"

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Emmons picked Bass for Roger Miller back in the 70's.

Michael Barone · From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania

I first learned bass as a keyboard player in the 70's. Left-hand & left foot on a B-3. I also learned guitar early, so when the time came to play or sit in with electric bass, it was easy.

From my experience recording jazz swing bass, regardless of the key, I found that I spent half the time or more overlapping the 5th fret. It's necessary to cover chromatic runs with most progressions & turn-arounds.

I just never caught on to "attacking the bass" by slapping the strings, banging them against the pickup, etc. I can do some of this stuff, but I have never applied it in recordings or live sit-ins. I guess it’s an adopted philosophy that is genre-oriented. I've tried to record percussive bass. Very difficult to mix. It's a headache I don't need, so that's another reason I don't like it. I believe that a bass player should be playing bass, not percussion. This technique I guess has its place in pop music & jazz fusion though.

I play bass, keyboard & guitar a lot better than PSG.

Just my thoughts.

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Mike Barone
Sho-Bud Pro-1, Nashville 112, Goodrich Pedal, BJS 15/16 Bar

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Bass is my second instrument. I don't play enough to keep my chops up, though.

My style on bass is sort of like Paul McCartney. I saw him playing his Hofner on the Cavern Club DVD and realized that he uses the same figures and positions that I use. He's a lot better at it, of course, but I guess that being a big Beatles fan when I was learning bass in my teens had quite an influence on my playing.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Curt Langston · Posted 29 May 2005 9:05 am

No, but most bass players can play a decent steel.

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

IMHO, Bass is the most important element of the small combo. It's the grounding force that bridges the physical and the musical worlds. When I play bass with a band, I feel like the conductor and the witch doctor combined. When I hear a song for the first time, I find my ear following what the bass player is doing before I tune into anything else. Maybe that's cause I started out as one. Life is too short for bad bass players.

Alan Shank · From: Woodland, CA, USA

After several frustrating years playing the mandolin poorly in Bluegrass, I took up the electric bass. I played in an originals-only band for a couple of years, then a covers-only band, where I listened to bass parts on record. I became a pretty good bass player, and got a feel for syncopation, which, when I switched back to mandolin, improved my playing tremendously. I still have an electric bass, but don't play it, as I am too busy with mandolin, steel and an electric guitar I just bought after I sold my Zum Stage One.

I think it's somewhat arrogant to think that, just because you can play guitar and can play notes on a bass, that you are a "bass player." There's a lot more to it than that. I also feel that really learning to play bass in a band can improve one's general musicianship; it certainly did mine.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

Gary Spaeth · From: Wisconsin, USA

i play bass and steel at the same time. i use a roland pk-5 pedal bass controller with an alesis nano-bass module. i play an 8 string lap steel with the high 8 strings of an E9 tuning with arm and palm pedals that do what pedals a & b do on a pedal steel. a compressor gives an ok simulation of a volume pedal. this is very stressful so i only play about 6 songs on steel and go back to playing acoustic lead/rhythm and pedal bass.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

There is a basic "Philosophy of Bass",
and then there are ways to stretch out within that,
and be both melodic and even a soloist, and not ruin the band sound.
it need NOT be only I V I V and an occasional III all night long.
Nor just square on 1 2 3 4.

But at the BASIC LEVEL the philosophy of bass MUST remain.

Apparently your buddy never bothered to learn that root bottom way of looking at it.

What John McG. said is all right on. He plays with some fine bass players too.
But you forgot Edgar Meyer... tsk tsk.

Tony "Try playing behind a Grand Piano playing in Eb and Ab ..."
I love it LOL! ( I like those keys fine)

I will note sometimes playing above the 5th fret IS needed ...
depending on that piano players left hand.

In and around the 5th fret is normal position,
but there are appropriate times to deviate from there,
another other times to NOT leave that area no matter how tempting.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 30 May 2005 at 10:18 AM.]

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

I can play bass, but I stink on ice... It would take me a few weeks and I would be "up to speed".. I used to be pretty fair at it years ago.... bob

Steven Welborn · From: Ojai,CA USA

John McG, youre DVD sounds interresting. Ill check it out. Its sounds like something i'd like to pass around to some "musicians" I know, and have to play with, for the time being anyway.
David, my buddy's problem encompasses more than what many guitarist-doubling-on-bass typically tend to do. His main failing is right hand technique. I cant even look at it without wincing. He picks at a bass string as you might pick at a scab, or scratch youre nose.And it sounds about as good.
Consequently, when Im on steel and he on bass, the band(were currently playing together in) suddenly looses drive, bottom, feel.....so sad

. Ive tried to explain, teach, etc., but he seems to lack the motivation and respect for the importance of the roll a bass performs for a band to put a little time in and get his act together. Oh well, Ill continue working on him...who knows.

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