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Topic: Fun to play LOUD |
Marc Friedland
From:
Fort Collins, CO
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Posted 9 Nov 2004 9:12 pm |
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Last Saturday night, The Dave Russell Band had a fun gig at the Cow Palace in San Francisco, CA. It was a huge stage high above the arena with well over 5000 enthusiastic listeners/partiers in attendance. We played from 11:35 to 1:45.
Obviously, everything was mic’d and went through the 48 large P.A. speakers.
In addition to the psg, I also played 2 keyboards and 6-string guitar.
I had my own riser too. I don’t know how to post pictures here, but if anyone would like to see how cool all my gear set up on the riser looked, I’d be glad to send you a jpeg in an email.
For the pedal steel I had 2 Nashville 400s. The bottom one was mic’d and the one piggyback on top was like my own monitor facing right at my head about 3 feet behind me. Both of their volumes were at about 4 to 5. I think my Carter always sounds good, but this night it sounded particularly full, rich, alive and LOUD.
The lead singer Dave, asked the sound crew to lower the volume of the steel in his monitor, but they couldn’t. As you can probably guess by now, the reason they couldn’t lower it in his monitor, was because it wasn’t even on in his monitor. It was just being picked up by various microphones on stage. Of course I realize that the important thing is that the singer and the band as a whole sounds as good as possible, so I asked the sound guys if they wanted me to lower my stage volume, and they said no, it sounded great, and indicated everything was working fine the way it was. It was fun and exciting to play at this volume level. I guess I still have rock n roll ears, or maybe poorer ears, who knows. Usually even if we’re playing a large venue at a Fair or Rodeo, we’re at a considerably lower stage volume than this night and my Nashville 112 mic’d through the board is all I need. The rest of the band members probably think we were excessively loud, but I really liked it. Now that it’s over, I know I’ll be going back to getting my enjoyment at a considerably lower decibel level for most all other gigs. Thanks for listening. Any comments?
--Marc
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Howard Tate
From:
Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 6:42 am
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I always thought it was easier to play in tune if the whole band was pretty loud, as long as I could hear myself. It seemed easier to hear the beats(intonation). That is, if every one was in tune.
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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400 Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3 |
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Chris Forbes
From:
Beltsville, MD, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 7:00 am
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| I fear that I really am getting old. I have no patience to play in a band that plays loud, I just can't put up with it anymore. |
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Mark Metdker
From:
North Central Texas, USA
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Jay Fagerlie
From:
Lotus, California, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 7:28 am
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Hey Mark,
Sounds like fun, the Cow Palace is a big place....the last time I was there was to see KISS on the day Elvis died....1977...
If you email me the photo, I'll post it for you.
Jay |
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Robert Thomas
From:
Mehama, Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 7:39 am
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About 20 years ago I guit playing in clubs, etc. I was invited to play with a group in Eugene, Ore. sometime after that for the benefit of my mother and brothers. I was requested by the band leader to watch my volume as the audience wouldn't tolerate excessive volume. After 2 hours I packed up my equipment and left. The band played so loud I couldn't hardly hear myself let alone stand the volume in my ears and through my whole body. Years ago when I played in the clubs, loud, excessive volume was not tolerated. I do not equate loudness with music, they are not one and the same.
I attended one C/W concert many years ago and I was so far from the musicians that they were hard to see. I left after 3 songs. We tried stuffing kleenex in our ears to subdue the pain. 3 blocks from the colesium their volume was just right to interpret it as some semblance of music.
Sorry if I sound miffed, but my age is telling, I cannot understand the music of today at all. I play "music" everyday and my audience enjoys every bit of it and they don't have to suffer pain or be uncomfortable in the process of listining.
There I said my piece for what ever it is worth. |
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Howard Tate
From:
Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 7:55 am
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| When I said pretty loud, I did not mean ear bleeding loud, I meant loud enough to hear the overtones from the other instruments. On the bandstand everyone said my tuning was good, at home I have a problem playing in tune with my computer tracks. |
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Marc Friedland
From:
Fort Collins, CO
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 9:45 am
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Howard,
I agree with you. Not that I claim to play perfectly in tune with precise intonation 100% of the time, but at the volume we were at, it seemed easier to stay in pitch with both myself and the rest of the band.
I'll email Jay some pictures and see if he's able to post any on here.
-- Marc |
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Jay Fagerlie
From:
Lotus, California, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 10:31 am
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Here's links to Marcs pics:
http://www.scaryoak.com/jay/BuckinBall004.jpg http://www.scaryoak.com/jay/BuckinBall006.jpg http://www.scaryoak.com/jay/BuckinBall008.jpg http://www.scaryoak.com/jay/BuckinBall009.jpg
Here's some info from Marc:
Here's a description of the photos I attached.
Two looking out from the stage, one before we started which is hard to see because it was so dark and one after it was all over and most everyone had already left the arena, but you get a good idea of how large the arena was.
The other two pics show my riser set-up, which consisted of the pedal steel & pac-a-seat, two Nashville 400 steel amps, two keyboards - one for piano & one for organ, my 40+ year old Epiphone guitar, Roland keyboard amp which I also ran the guitar with an effects unit through. The effects pedal near the steel was an overdrive which I used on one song only, Ring of Fire doing the signature intro horn licks.
Thanks,
Marc
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Jay |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 2:17 pm
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| Last Sat nite I went out to play with a group I'd never worked with before. I just got the call on Wednesday and happened to be open for Sat and took the gig. It was in an old really run down honky tonk but I figured it would be fun. The guy said it would be mostly country and some southern rock. These guys had a lot gear on stage and a PA a lot bigger than they needed for this room so I knew it was going to be loud when I set up. I looked for my ear plugs just in case. It turned out they had some really great arrangments on everything and played it very well. At one point we were actually doing some old Pink Floyd and I was scrambling to readjust my EQ and effects settings to try to fit in. They would run bits and pieces of different songs together in a medley and it all came off really well and pretty loud at times. It was the first band I ever played with that played that well from one extreme to the next. Even at the volume we were playing the balance made it very tolerable. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 2:51 pm
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Having been taken to task on this Forum on prior occasions, and unlike Jeff Au Hoy who has "a bunker"....I have to be most careful about my comments. I seem to be standing alone on a barren, treeless hilltop backlit by the setting sun.
But I can't understand how "ANYONE" who thinks of him/herself as a professional musician...can figure that a sound system that has the capability of delivering a couple of thousand watts and/or MORE out put, can actually consider the outcome to be music. Ear shattering racket/sound, cannot really be used in the same phrase as "music", unless you're also into rewriting history like any number from the younger generations seem intent on doing these days. (This referrence has nothing to do with any northwest musicians, professional or otherwise, living or dead!) I'm not yet convinced it's the difference between AGE GROUPS, the young vs. the Old, but rather, those that don't know what they're talking about or doing, vs. those that have been there and DO KNOW what's going on.
I too, have seen some of these "SOUND" spectacles,and all too often, it's in a room with a Fire Marshall's maximum seating capacity of 100 persons or less.
We used to discuss things about a recent Billy Robinson doo-dad on Red Foley's WSM-Opry radio appearance or whatever. Now, the topic seems always to drift to "What type or rating of EAR PLUGS do you prefer/use? |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 4:50 pm
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| Marc, That's one of those stand up and beat your chest gigs! Way to go! I would love to do a couple of those once in a while. Most of my audience are the older retired folks, so we keep it real low profile. Once in a while I gig with a local band that likes to crank it up and score some body count. Those are fun gigs, but I'll drag out the ear plugs. [This message was edited by James Morehead on 10 November 2004 at 04:52 PM.] |
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Ken Lang
From:
Simi Valley, Ca
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 8:02 pm
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| What? |
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Jody Sanders
From:
Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 9:01 pm
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| Sounds Like we have a lot of candidates for these $4000.00 hearing aids like I am wearing. Jody. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 9:01 pm
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I guess I am missing out on one of lifes great enjoyments but I detest playing loud. I detest a loud electric guitar playing rhythm over my solo. I just flat out hate noise. I absolutely can't st.......oh well,
Jerry |
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Marc Friedland
From:
Fort Collins, CO
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Posted 10 Nov 2004 9:44 pm
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Thanks for the replies everyone. It's nice to see different points of view presented in a civil manner.
Jay, thanks for posting links to those pictures for me.
Yes James, it was one of those gigs that felt really good to be a part of.
I understand and can appreciate some of your viewpoints about music that's too loud is not a good thing. I know my appreciation of the volume level at this particular gig puts me in the minority. I would like to make a couple of points. I believe that it's not an accurate assessment to say that loud music is always just noise that's not good music worth listening to. Even if that's your general view, I'd like to think we were the exception to that on this particular evening. This was a very large venue where loud music was expected and appreciated. Most of the time we play smaller venues, and our volume levels are MUCH lower and I don't try to encourage anyone to play louder than appropriately for the room and the crowd they are playing to. Also, in The Dave Russell Band, we don't jam, we play pre-arranged parts that are worked out ahead of time in rehearsal. We didn't play anything different because of the higher volume level. No one overplayed or did anything that wasn't in the band's best interest just because we were playing a high profile gig at a loud volume. I was proud of all of our performances. We'll see if I change my mind when I see the video, but that's still to be determined.
For those that are inspired, keep those comments coming.
Thanks, Marc
[This message was edited by Marc Friedland on 10 November 2004 at 11:09 PM.] |
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Jay Fagerlie
From:
Lotus, California, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2004 8:55 am
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Let me add to Marc's post above.
I have seen his band live and can tell you that these guys put on a great show, and volume was not an issue. It sounded great, and every instrument had it's place in the sound. Sitting back 30 ft from the stage, the wife and I were still able to carry on a conversation without yelling at each other.
I think maybe people are confused on just what 'loud' means. Being such a personal viewpoint that changes from person to person, I don't see how anyone can make a judgement call.....
just my 2 cents......
Jay |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2004 9:20 am
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I don't have a problem with turning it up when you have the room, like an outdoor arena or concert hall with a big stage. It's the small stages in tiny clubs where turning up can be painful and destructive.
Hi Marc!
Dave Z
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Dave Zirbel-
ZB Custom D-10 8 x 5, S-12U Kline 7 x6, Dobro Cyclops reissue, 1967 Fender Telecaster, Webb 6-14E, Fender Super Reverb
The Mother Truckers
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Roger Edgington
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2004 11:07 am
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| I think several things have to be concidered in respect to volume. First of all the type of music you are playing, then the size of the place, the size of the band, are there horns,drums? One of the important things to me is the balance. If things are balanced correctly sometimes overall volume is not as critical or irritating. We play fairly strong,usually in large places,and I like the energy and aggressivness I feel from the other players. Like Marc,we also have everything arranged and play the same way regardless of stage volume. To me it would be wrong to play a Hawiian gig at our volume but just as odd to play swing real layed back. I think you have to adjust according to conditions. To me the the volume should be just right in the middle of the room. |
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John Rickard
From:
Phoenix (It's A Dry Heave) AZ
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Posted 13 Nov 2004 11:51 am
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YOU KIDS GET OUTTA MY YARD  !!!!!!!!!
JR 
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Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 13 Nov 2004 1:09 pm
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| well, i was always told if you can't play good play loud!!!!! sorry guys |
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