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Topic: Making a frypan replica |
Brian Henry
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Posted 26 Apr 2005 12:41 pm |
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| Is it feasible to buy a piece of aluminum 36" x 8 x 2 and cut it out with a machine saw? Or would it be better to use casting sand and make an aluminum casting. My friend has a blacksmiths forgwe and I believe we could do casting. Has any one tried this before? |
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Bob Stone
From:
Gainesville, FL, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2005 12:47 pm
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Or you could just order one from Rick Aiello right here on the Forum!
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oj hicks
From:
Springville, AL
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Posted 26 Apr 2005 10:35 pm
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Good advice, Bob. Of course Rick's cast aluminum guitars come with his high-tech pickups that are, IMHO, second to none. I have one in my Excel JB Frypan. It really rocks.
oj hicks |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Russ Young
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 27 Apr 2005 4:40 am
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" What's that man doing?
He's making a concrete flower pot!
And so can you!
Nah, who remembers PS! 
Good one Rick. LOL
I was going to oost a link to your frying pan thread,
but all the pics have expired on the hosting service...
I bet the sound files are gone too.
Drat.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 27 April 2005 at 05:42 AM.] |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 27 Apr 2005 1:27 pm
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The Charles Laughton version is cool,
but you need and original Loney Chaney Sr. version too. |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 12:23 pm
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| I found out that you can get a piece of aluminum the size of a frypan for $125 fretboard, $30 grovers $28 and a pickup for $75 So, for less than $275 you could have the materials for a frypan. ADD $50 FOR CUTTING IT OUT AND ANOTHER $50 FOR POLISHING. FINAL PRICE $395 |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 12:25 pm
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| It may look like a FryPan (maybe), but will it sound like a FryPan? What grade of aluminum is it? [This message was edited by Mike Neer on 28 April 2005 at 01:27 PM.] |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 12:27 pm
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| Reynolds Wrap. And you don't have to do any research. Just glue it up with Elmers and you're good to go. |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 12:49 pm
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Mike,
The kind I was looking at is aluminum 6016 aircraft grade. What do you think. It is only going to cost a fraction of the real one and oif it is built from the same material.... The secret is that it should be one piece ... using carbide blades ... in a bandsaw at a slow speed should do it. My friend is a Delta Airlines ' machinist. What do you think... Is it worth a try to save over $1000??? |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 12:54 pm
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| My machinist friend has just come up with a piece of even higher grade aluminum for $75.00 It would be much cheaper to do a sand casting, but I doubt that the sound would be any good. I'll keep uyou posted!! |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 1:02 pm
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tb,
Thank You for reporting your research and ideas.
Some questions in the form of thought:
| Quote: |
| I found out that YOU (my emphasis) can get a piece of aluminum ...for $125. ... ADD $50 FOR CUTTING IT OUT... . FINAL PRICE $395. |
"YOU" says most anyone. Assuming the correct alloy is available for $125, I think $50 is rather optimistic for "us" that don't have access to a free machining expert and his time in the final hand detailing. For the average person to have an accurate frypan cut from billet (or risk a foo-foo on the billet investment), I would guess it would require a laser "CAD" scan and "CNC" machining ...at about $400 by my rough estimate. I'm sure someone more qualified than me can provide a better estimate of CAD / CNC service ...or a means to find an expert machinist who can get it right with little risk.
Aloha,
DT~
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Russ Young
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 1:14 pm
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tb,
Like Denny, I'm curious about how you calculated your costs of cutting and polishing.
That notwithstanding, I would say "Absolutely -- give it a shot!" We'll be interested in seeing and hearing the finished product.
I'm probably not alone in saying that I'm skeptical, based on my high regard for Rick Aiello and what he has put into in developing the Dustpan, as well as improved horseshoe ... err, I mean around-the-string magnets.
I'm guessing that you will find that the process is much more difficult and expensive than you estimate. Then again, since I am neither a machinist, metallurgist or luthier, your guess is as good as -- or probably better -- than mine!
Good luck. |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 1:57 pm
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| Quote: |
| It would be much cheaper to do a sand casting, but I doubt that the sound would be any good. |
Oh, never mind ...
------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 28 April 2005 at 03:16 PM.] |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 2:53 pm
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Rick,
I havn't decided for sure what to do. My friend who has the small forge - used for blacksmithing years ago has done sand casting. I guess unless someone tells me we may end up doing a sand casting ad also cutting one out from aircraft aluminum. Then try them out and see which one has the best sound. Rick are yours all sand cast or have you ever cut one out from aluminum. I don't want your trade secrets but am willing to experiment just like you have done. regards, tbh |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 3:51 pm
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I'm still not sure whether my endorsement might actually harm the image of the product...but here goes anyway.
tbhenry, I have played Rick Aiello's instruments (three of them) in person and they sound and feel just like solid-neck Rickenbacher frypans. I guess your machined one might sound great but it would be hard to say if you'll hit the mark if you're shooting for the Rickenbacher sound. The vintage ones were not cut from a slab.
Rick Aiello's sound like Ricks. And they are sand-casted. |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 3:59 pm
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Yes ... my steels are all cast ...
As were/are Rickenbachers, Shobuds and Excels.
The porosity of the aluminum ... and stresses (or lack of) in the metal ... play big roles in acoustic properties of aluminum.
First off, there seems to be abit of confusion here ... with the terms billet, extruded aluminum and cast.
Billet is usually either solid or hollow, cylindercal ... usually cast ... rods of aluminum (alloy).
These are generally very long "logs" that get cut into pieces depending on the size of the piece being extruded.
The billet is the softened by heating it to around 800 F (the melting point of aluminum is around 1200 F).
Once softened the billet is forcefully rammed thru a die ... at pressures up to 15,000 tons.
Although very uniform now and strong (especially after heat treating) ... the extruded aluminum is very "stressed".
Metals are crystalline materials ... and their atoms arrange themselves into precise 3D configurations (lattices) ...
Forcing softened metal under extrememly high pressures is a violent process ... which disrupts the natural crystalline configuration of the metal.
Being cast ... no such stress is placed on the metal ... and it is allowed to "arrange" itself into its natural lattice structure.
Sand casting ... also promotes the formation of millions of microscopic air bubbles ...
This is not generally wanted ... say in a piece of aluminum that will have to withstand external forces being exerted on it (as in aircraft design) ...
And as I have learned recently ... because of the porosity and silicon (alloying component) associated with casting alloys ...
Casting is not the "method" of choice for anodizing. Some casting alloys are better than others for anodizing ... but compared to extruded aluminum ... the appearance will be poorer in quality.
But in musical instruments ... these pores ... act as millions of tiny resonating chambers.
Think of bells ... (hence all my Hunchback references).
That being said ... I do know someone who has machined a frypan out of extruded aluminum.
It is a beautiful replica of a prewar frypan ... down to the slotted headstock.
I never heard it ... but I talk to the maker often ...
He used a postwar Ricky horseshoe pickup.
------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 4:21 pm
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Sometimes you just have to bite the billet.....  [This message was edited by HowardR on 28 April 2005 at 05:22 PM.] |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 6:06 pm
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| Are the aluminum necks on pedal steels cast or machined? |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 6:51 pm
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I believe Emmon's Push-Pulls and old ShoBuds had cast aluminum end plates ...
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2005 9:10 pm
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Live and learn. Die and forget it all.
DT~
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