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Topic: Designing a Weissenborn |
Garth Highsmith
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Posted 17 Oct 2004 3:41 pm |
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| . [This message was edited by Garth Highsmith on 06 January 2006 at 10:55 AM.] |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Oct 2004 4:18 pm
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Here's a site about building your own Weissenborn taht might be useful: http://www.rahul.net/gaa/Weiss/
I believe Neil Russell of Celtic Cross built an 8-string Weissenborn for forumite Dwight Mark a while back, if you do a search for Dwight and get his email address perhaps he will share his experience with you.
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
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Ron Bednar
From:
Rancho Cordova, California, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2004 4:51 pm
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Hey Garth,
Welcome to the "Got The Hots For A Weiss Club"!
The info Steinar mentioned is good, also I believe Stew-Mac sells plans for a Weiss, which is a good place to start. Your luthier friend can look those over and do some bracing adjustment from there.
I'd go the eight string but don't think you can reach a true baritone range with a standard scale length, you can't. What you will have is a low tuned guitar on the bottom strings. Still, it'll probably sound great. There's a whole issue about hitting the harmonics of the note but not the fundemental
when you are shorter than a 28" or 29" scale length. A couple baritone builders I talked with felt that anything less than 30" should not be considered a baritone no matter what it was tuned to, they were very adamant about that. I do have a 30" scale length Weiss on the way, should be here in a week or less. The string gauges are a bear for it, running from 18 to 80! I'll definately post some clips when I can. Good luck with yours!
[This message was edited by Ron Bednar on 17 October 2004 at 05:53 PM.] |
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Garth Highsmith
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Posted 17 Oct 2004 5:01 pm
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| . [This message was edited by Garth Highsmith on 06 January 2006 at 11:00 AM.] |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Oct 2004 5:12 pm
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Garth, here's another acoustic 8-string. Far from being a Weissenborn, but quite cool. It's a prototype from Loni Specter of Lapdancer Guitars.
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
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Travis Bernhardt
From:
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 Oct 2004 1:04 pm
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David Lindley plays a seven-string Weiss copy made by Canopus. Low bass G tuning with a really low G for the seventh string (GDGDGBD, low to high). You could e-mail him and ask what the scale length is on it--it's a really good sounding guitar.
-Travis |
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 18 Oct 2004 3:48 pm
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Just a thought but it might be possible, depending on the tuning and your playing style, to go with a 'Fanned Fret' design. What that entails is using 2 different scale lengths on the same guitar (longer on the bass of course). The nut and saddle are placed at an angle at the correct distances and the frets are layed out to connect them up. If you search on fanned frets (which is copyrighted) you'll find some examples.
If you play a lot of single notes it will probably work, otherwise I think it would be a slat nightmare.
Stewart MacDonald sells some really nice Weissenborn plans and I'm sure your luthier can adapt them to whatever you need.
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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Travis Bernhardt
From:
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 19 Oct 2004 11:48 am
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A semi-related topic: I was talking with some Weissenborn copy owners the other day and I mentioned how one aspect of the guitar I don't like is the string height. The strings are so close to the fretboard that if you hammer down at the twelfth fret (or wherever) you put a dent in the guitar. Obviously, you could build it with a higher nut, but apparently this can have an effect on tone (something to do with the break angle over the saddle, maybe?).
What I was wondering was how much the fretboard contributes to the structural integrity of the guitar, considering that there isn't really a neck? If it doesn't play much of a role, could you make the fretboard really thin, giving you a bit of extra clearance?
-Travis |
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 19 Oct 2004 2:20 pm
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That's exactly what I do on my tricones. They don't like as much break angle over the saddle as Dobros so to increase the overall string height I started thinning the boards.
I don't think that that would be a problem on acoustic Weiss-style guitars, the neck area is pretty stout and the stress on the fretboard is in compression, thinning it shouldn't make much of a difference.
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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2004 8:18 pm
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I'm not entirely sure about the theoretical discussion about what constitutes a 'true baritone' guitar. IMHO it seems like there might be more to this issue than simply scale length. For example, if a D tuned Weissenborn works fine with a 25" scale, why would you need to have 28" or 30" scale to support the fundamental in a C based tuning (which is cello range). Now I understand if you are using a low G tuning like Lindlay (with the low G two octaves below a dobro tuning) you might need a 30" scale, but I just don't see it for C tuning.
I actually had the opportunity to have Rich Mermer build me a 30" guitar, but chose the guitar I had played before (27" scale) because;
a) I couldn't imagine wanting any more bass response than that guitar gives.
b) I worried about lack of balance in the upper end, because the high end is just as important to me.
Rich uses some none traditional bracing, I believe there is information on his web site.
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www.tyack.com
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Garth Highsmith
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Posted 21 Oct 2004 5:48 pm
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| . [This message was edited by Garth Highsmith on 06 January 2006 at 11:00 AM.] |
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Bill Blacklock
From:
Powell River, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 21 Oct 2004 9:45 pm
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Garth,
The strings on my Celtic Cross Weissenborn (25” scale) are jacked up 7/16” off the fret board and it’s great, I can really play it hard without the strings bottoming out, even with a capo. I take delivery of my new baritone Celtic Cross Weissenborn in a few more weeks. It will be 15% larger overall with a 30” scale, mahogany top and black walnut back and sides. I like to play in C (1-5-1-5-1-3) and would like to take this shape down to a G. I wasn’t to sure on the scale length required so I did some inquiring and Mr. Lindley was kind enough to reply to my e-mail, 30” is what it is. I like the sound of a mahogany top better then koa, it’s my own personal taste I guess, I’ve owned a couple of original koa Weissenborns in the past, and didn’t care for either. A cedar top might sound real good. This time around I’m trying a Shatten “Daulie” twin element piezo soundboard pickup, I’ll let you know how it sounds in a few weeks. Bill
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2004 11:38 pm
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The pickup on my Mermer is a 'Pickup the world' job. It sound pretty good, a million times better than the McIntire pickup in my dobro.
In terms of height, the strings seem higher than 3/16. I will check it out.
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www.tyack.com
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Grant Johnson
From:
Nashville TN
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Posted 22 Oct 2004 6:46 am
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Those "Pick Up The World" pups are nice...
I like the MacIntyre Feather pickup which I use on my dobro, but it needs a good pre-amp with EQ to get the tone....
I think that they are good for the $$$ though. |
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Ron Bednar
From:
Rancho Cordova, California, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2004 8:02 am
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Bill - I am expecting my Lazy River Baritone Weiss to be here week after next. It is also a 30" scale. I'd love to compare the two when you get yours. Yours is the only other 30" scale Weiss out there that I am aware of.
What make of strings and gauges are you planning on using? I had some custom sets of Newtone Alohas made for mine. They come to pitch under less tension than regular strings, saving some pressure on the top and neck, and they really push that harp like sound of the Weiss. These are big, 18 to 80. If you like I'll send you a set when you get your guitar and we can compare.
Congrats!! |
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Bill Blacklock
From:
Powell River, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 22 Oct 2004 6:55 pm
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Ron,
I’ve been looking at your baritone on the Lazy River wed site, what a gorgeous instrument, you must be counting the days, what could ever be better then the day the new instrument arrives! It will be interesting to compare the two. Yes, I would like to try some Newtone Aloha’s strings. Neil at Celtic Cross is putting together a set .017 to .080, for the launching. John Pearse has a stock set of bronze resophonic strings .017- .076, for $10.00 @ Just Strings, I might give them a try. I like new strings so I need to find something that’s affordable. Neil sent me a paper pattern of my baritone the other day so I could make a case, the instrument is quite a bit larger than the standard model but didn’t seem at all over sized. Any thoughts on a pickup for your baritone? I hope to have better luck with the Shatten “Daulie” pickup in the baritone than I’ve had with the McIntyre feather in my dobro. The McIntyre has the treble of a raped gerbil and a bass like a can of rocks. Looking forward to hearing about your new guitar. Good Sailing / Bill
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Ron Bednar
From:
Rancho Cordova, California, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2004 9:09 pm
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Hey Bill,
My playing is all acoustic so I can't help with pickup suggestions. For recording my preference goes towards a big condenser about a foot or so off the tail end and a pencil mike hovering over the lower part of the fret board...pretty standard stuff.
I'll tell you though, venturing into the baritone territory of the acoustic guitar scene, especially in the lap playing format, is very exciting...not many folks doing that.
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Bill Blacklock
From:
Powell River, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 23 Oct 2004 7:06 pm
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Ron,
It is exciting venturing into baritone territory, I’ve owned a few of laps in the past but nothing like the one that’s coming. It’s great to see the quality of the instruments that are being built and the changes going on with the design. I’ve never played a Lazy River or a Mermer but yours and Dan’s look like amazing guitars. Neil at Celtic Cross is great to deal with, he builds a first class instrument at a very fair price. Where very lucky to have these guys around but were will it all end, dog house bass weissenborns that we have to carry on roof racks?
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Oct 2004 8:29 pm
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| Quote: |
| were will it all end, dog house bass weissenborns that we have to carry on roof racks? |
Or a weissenborn that doubles as a kayak? 
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
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Travis Bernhardt
From:
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 23 Oct 2004 8:55 pm
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Coffins.
-Travis |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2004 10:08 pm
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I think 27" might be as far as I am going to go. If I need more bottom end I think I might play my 25 1/1" scale 'English Electronic' lap through an SVT. That will probably do the trick.
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www.tyack.com
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Garth Highsmith
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Posted 24 Oct 2004 4:48 pm
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| . [This message was edited by Garth Highsmith on 06 January 2006 at 11:00 AM.] |
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Ron Bednar
From:
Rancho Cordova, California, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2004 4:55 pm
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| Quote: |
| but were will it all end, dog house bass weissenborns that we have to carry on roof racks? |
I imagine something like this: a bunch of us guys sailing the baritone over to Steinar's house for the Annual Viking Weissenborn Festival Barbeque and Beer Bust.
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Oct 2004 5:03 pm
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Whoa! The beer and food's on me!!
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
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Bill Blacklock
From:
Powell River, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 25 Oct 2004 5:51 pm
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| Ron, that is so cool. Can I come, I know the way. I worked the coast of Norway for a few months and delivered a Norweigan ship back to Canada. Norway is an amazing place with wonderful people. I was fortunate enough to get ashore on the outer islands and attended some fine blues jams on the islands of Finnoy and Horoey. Rumour has it that sailors are treated very well in Kristiansand. Would you mind if I took a copy of that picture to hang on my cabin wall. What a fine looking ship, at least 90 ft on the waterline , a bone her teeth and nicely making way. Good sailing / Bill |
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