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Topic: Mic Pre & Compressor |
Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 11 Nov 2004 6:54 pm |
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Anybody have a good suggestion for a multi-channel mic and line level preamp with compressors and maybe eq altogether?
Also, in general - how much headroom or dynamic range is required to process steel guitar ? I get distortion on some of my stuff.... |
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Roger Marshall
From:
Arroyo Grande, California, USA
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Posted 12 Nov 2004 7:44 pm
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If this is for recording, the best bang for the buck would be the FMR RNP & RNC combo. If your not familiar with these, RNP stands for "really nice preamp" and RNC "really nice compressor" I know this sounds kind of hokey, but these two units are incredibly good for the money. The pre, if I remember right has 70db of headroom. Both units are considered to be fairly transparent. The pre can be had for $450-$500 and the compressor for around $300. Do a search on FMR. The site does a good job of describing the pluses and minuses of each. Hope this helps.
Roger |
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Roger Marshall
From:
Arroyo Grande, California, USA
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Posted 12 Nov 2004 7:46 pm
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Forgot to mention that these are both two channel units.
Roger |
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Scott Denniston
From:
Hahns Peak, Colorado, USA
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Posted 12 Nov 2004 7:51 pm
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| I believe the street price for the RNC is now about $175. I haven't tried it but have sure read a lot of great reviews on it saying things like "best sounding compressor under $2000". This compressor was apparently built as a group project in a university audio electronics class. |
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Roger Marshall
From:
Arroyo Grande, California, USA
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Posted 12 Nov 2004 8:55 pm
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I think your right on the price of the RNC Scott. Maybe that's $300 list. I use mine on just about everything. I'm thinking of getting myself an RNP for Xmas. Because I've been a good boy. 
Roger |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2004 12:18 am
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Second the RNP and RNC. THese are great sounding units at a wonderful price. Great documentation (actually usefull with zero marketing fluff).
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www.tyack.com
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Mark Butcher
From:
Scotland
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Posted 13 Nov 2004 2:22 am
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I have a Joe Meek VC3Q. I was using it to get a clean mic feed into my computer for recording. Then I remembered it had a line in for guitar. Works a treat for steel, has an optical compressor and three band eq. They were pretty cheap in the UK and another benefit is that its small. I run from it to an Alesis reverb then the mixer I use for the electro acoustic instruments I play and on to a poweramp & speakers.
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Sho-Bud Pro 1
Many stringed things.
www.marksmandolins.com
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Mark Butcher
From:
Scotland
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Posted 13 Nov 2004 2:27 am
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I have a Joe Meek VC3Q. I was using it to get a clean mic feed into my computer for recording. Then I remembered it had a line in for guitar. Works a treat for steel, has an optical compressor and three band eq. They were pretty cheap in the UK and another benefit is that its small. I run from it to an Alesis reverb then the mixer I use for the electro acoustic instruments I play and on to a poweramp & speakers.
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Sho-Bud Pro 1
Many stringed things.
www.marksmandolins.com
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 13 Nov 2004 8:45 am
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I audited a pro recording techniques class at our local Austin Community College, which has a pretty good little professional music program. The instructor, whom I'd known a long time, absolutely RAVED about the RNC, "the best unit under 2 grand you can get." I think they're made in Austin. Anyway, good company and good products. I'd like to get one of the pre-amps for my little home setup.
Question: in recording steel direct to the computer I go from the guitar to a Genesis 3, to a Behringer 1202 mixer, then into the hard drive. Where, if anywhere, should the pre-amp go in the chain? Or is a pre-amp necessary for steel/guitar if using the Genesis? I'd still need it for vocals, I assume.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 13 November 2004 at 08:49 AM.] |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2004 10:08 am
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The Joemeek units are really great, although most of them are single channel strips. Their two channel EQ is outstanding though, very musical and easy to operate. Although I haven't tried the RNP, if it's in the same league with the RNC, it's got to be a winner. The RNC is definitely the best low $ compressor you can buy. Another wonderful two-channel preamp is the discontinued Peavey VMP-2. Very close or equal to an Avalon or similar in performance, shows up on ebay for $6-700. Herb, I would think you'd usually use a pre-amp first in line as they're generally used to get the mic level up to line level, with whatever signal conditioning/eq (and for units like the joemeek, compression) added... I assume the Genesis has those functions but you could find a way to bypass preamplification in there to get a different sound with an outboard preamp. Another choice in front of a Genesis unit might be one of the several DI units containing Aural enhancement circuitry.
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
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Roger Marshall
From:
Arroyo Grande, California, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2004 12:19 pm
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| I have a Question. What's a Genesis? |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 15 Nov 2004 3:28 pm
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Roger
A Genesis 3 is an amp modeler/effects unit that was made by Digitech. It was discontinued about a year or so ago to make way for a new generation, and had recently been discovered by many of us thanks to Buddy Emmons discussing his use of the box.
Buddy rarely speaks with forked tongue. I've found it to be a great unit to record direct to the computer with. Like most effects units, it's so deep with features that I'm daunted, and basically use one or two settings that I like as "my sound."
Do a forum search on "Genesis 3" and see what comes up.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Roger Marshall
From:
Arroyo Grande, California, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2004 4:17 pm
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| Thankyou Herb. |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2004 4:42 pm
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Herb, your little mixer has your "preamps" right there in it. You know, the microphone inputs. They're not the greatest mic preamps, but they'll work for basic needs.
The RNC is great. I've had one since they first started making them. Very flexible compressor and also idiotproof in "super nice" mode. I haven't heard the new mic preamp from FMR, but I'd guess they did it right based on how they did with the RNC.
My favorite, bang-for-the-buck microphone preamps are the Sytek pre's out of Chicago. Made by the guy from Neotek, Mike Stoika. $800 gets you 4 channels of truly excellent pro mic preamps. I don't know if he makes a 2-channel model.
Brad Sarno
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Jackie Anderson
From:
Scarborough, ME
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Posted 15 Nov 2004 6:38 pm
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For "channel strips," the Symetrix 528 includes a pretty clean preamp, compression, 3-band parametric EQ and a "de-esser" (not exactly essential for steel, but nice for vocals). They have been popular for a long time in the radio biz, so there are a lot of used ones floating around at what seem like decent prices (I think I paid about $150).
Oops, not "multi-channel" -- unless you pick up two or more.
P.S. Another vote for the RNC![This message was edited by Jack Anderson on 15 November 2004 at 06:39 PM.] |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 24 Nov 2004 11:49 pm
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Gentlemen:
Thanks for your suggestions. That RNC sure gets great reviews. I'll check one out.
Another pre/eq/comp combo unit (2 channel) that I stumbled upon is a TL Audio 5052 - retails at somewhere near $2000. A bit pricey - but it "appears" to have everything I want. I could use that unit for a lot of stuff.
If someone has one - or has friends in a local studio with one, or can read the specs for a technical screening - let me know your thoughts..(There isn't one within 600 miles of me...Special order only)
Thanks! |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2004 5:33 pm
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There is a lot of high end gear to fit the bill that you are looking to fill ....
On the "bang for the buck " line of goods that are not super high end, but surely no sloutch, the ART Pro Channel is a GREAT sounding unit ....I picked up 2 of them for stereo operation after speaking to a few people on another forum about the same question asked here ...The Pro Channel has Mic Pre, Compressor, and EQ built into one box ...It's a very versitile unit and is tube driven .... I was really shocked when I heard the quality of the sound comming from this box.....I have other gear which is much higher end, but for the money, I really was in shock after hearing this unit ....I also have some 12ax7 tubes that I ordered on the same reccomendation ....I put these in the ART PRO and it improved the tone even more..
VERY happy with this unit .....Jim |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 25 Nov 2004 7:39 pm
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James -
Thanks for the suggestion. I looked over the specs, and it appears to be a well-featured mid-range unit.
Headroom of 21 db headroom vs. 27 db on a higher end unit and 15 db on low end units.
The 'almost' fully parametric eq has 2 options for the "Q", Q=1.1 and 3.3. If a compromise had to be made, 1.1 and 3.3 are probably as good points as any.
Have you ever tried the Art Pro with your steel guitar? Does it have enough headroom to handle the steel? Can you dial in as good of a tone (or better) as you can get with your amp?
What is the best price you found on yours? I see they sell for about $320 on the online music shops.
Geez...Its not 'everything' but its 80%+. For about 3x more I could get "everything". ART sure knows how to put potential buyers in a pickle with thier price points.
After I receive your answers - I think I may give it a whirl - dump it on ebay if it doesn't get me "there"....
[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 25 November 2004 at 09:04 PM.] |
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T. C. Furlong
From:
Lake County, Illinois, USA
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Posted 26 Nov 2004 6:30 pm
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Tom,
Check out the Presonus Eureka. My friend who is the most persnickidy (and talented) recording engineer tells me that this is the real deal.
TC |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 26 Nov 2004 10:13 pm
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I've checked out the symetrix and eureka. Both very nice mid-range specs. Bang for buck, though - I'm still leaning toward the Art Prochannel....The lack of variable Q does bother my conscience, I admit.
Any opinions on a vari-Q vs. two position selectable Q ?
Is the Art a "starved-plate" (low V) design (=junk?)[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 26 November 2004 at 11:00 PM.] |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2004 7:59 am
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IMHO I don't want any sort of eq on a mike pre. I just want something that will get the good sound onto my hard disk. If the sound isn't right, just change the mike and or mike position. If I need parametric EQ tweeking I'll do it digitally later.
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www.tyack.com
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 27 Nov 2004 5:38 pm
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Dan - To clarify - I'm going to be using a unit for a bunch of things. In a live setting, I'll probably use it as a DI with my steel and then to the board. With para eq - I should be able to knock out some 800 Hz, and "get my sound" before it hits the board. The band I'm joining doesn't use stage amps, so a mic pre with para eq is needed.
Also, in my home studio - I need a mic pre/compressor combo. Track compression should be done before it hits the A/D to use bit depth more effectively and preserve fidelity.
So that leads me to a channel strip concept.
BTW - you can patch the eq and compressor in any order, and in or out - so you don't HAVE to use them. |
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Randy Beavers
From:
Lebanon,TN 37090
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Posted 29 Nov 2004 4:36 am
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I'm also looking for a "channel strip" for my home studio. What's your opinion on variable impedance at the mic input? I'm leaning toward the ART MPA Gold tube preamp because of the variable feature. Another unit that is more pricy, but has the features I want, is the Universal Audio LA-610. It is a mono unit with a "selectable" input impedance, compressor, and eq.
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Randy
http://hometown.aol.com/pulltightb/home.html
[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 29 November 2004 at 04:53 AM.] |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2004 12:16 pm
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Randy,
The variable impeadence is not offered in the Pro Channel ....The MPA Gold has it though....The Pro Channel has Vari-Mu in the compressor circuit as well as the optical compressor ....The Vari Mu is a faster compressor for things like drums or ???..... ....The 2-610 is a KICKIN piece of gear !!....It's FAAAAAAT sounding ....Did I say FAAAAAAAAT ???......This unit is REALLY nice for pedal steel ...It's also a much higher budget item .... If you have that kind of $$$ to spend, check out the Vipre by Groove Tubes !!....That is also a very special piece , and also has the variable impeadence.... A little pricey, but it's well worth the $$$.... The compressor is also very nice....Sincerely, Jim |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2004 12:28 pm
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Tom,
I have found the EQ to be very adequate for just about any situation ..... I'm sure you could find some offending frequency that you could not " notch" out , but for the most part, it's a very nice musical sounding EQ....The gain is also adequate for recording the steel ...I do have various D.I. units that brings my pedal steel into the +4 balanced arena for an even cleaner tone, and higher gain .....Maximum gain on the XLR to XLR is 83db ...Nothing to sneeze at ....1/4" to 1/4" is 65db ......
I also think that what we have to remember here is that we are talking about a piece of tube gear, with many variable's , with a compressor, and a Parametric EQ with VU's for just over $300.... I don't have any mic pre's in my studio that I can say cost $300 for one channel alone !!..... It's well worth the money .... Jim |
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