Fender Twin vs. Session 400 amps

Craig Villalon · From: Charlottesville Va.

I've been playing on a '66 Fender Twin reverb for my steel work and also play a strat through it as well..got sick of playing in smoke filled bars, and stopped playing out for a number of years...well I have the urge to play out again and am wondering about the peaveys...the only complaint i have with the fender is it's sheer weight...i love the sound for the steel and the strat...can anybody give me feed back and compare the two amps? What would the strat sound like through the peavey? Thanks!

'68 Emmons D-10, '2000 Derby D-10, '66Fender Twin Reverb

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I'm moving this to the Electronics forum.

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

Hey Craig,
Best thing to do is just get ahold of
a small handcart to wheel your amp around.
If you've used that old Twin all these
years & like the tone, then switching over
to a transistor amp might be a shock for you. Besides, them Peaveys ain't light either!

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Keep Steelin' !!!

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I used to have both a Music Man twin (which I still have) and a Peavey LTD 400. I thought I got a better steel sound out of the Peavey, but I didn't like the guitar sound. The Music Man is not as good as the Peavey was for steel, but it's good enough. and I can get a good guitar sound out of it as well.

IMHO The Music Man is the more versitile of the two. If I ONLY played steel, I'd rather have the Peavey, but since I double, I prefer the twin.

Michael ODriscoll · From: Waunakee, Wisconsin USA

FWIW... I'll counter Mike Perlowin's comment by saying I own a '65 Twin Reverb-Reissue and a Peavey LTD 400, and the dust cover has been on the LTD for months now. The TR was retubed with Svetlana's, and the LTD recapped with John LeMay's RetroKit.

I'm an amateur and only play for fun, so the weigh of the TR is no big deal for me since it sits on top of a plastic milk crate most of the time, but the tone suits my ears.

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::: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused. :::

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

The T/R is one of the best all-around amps ever made! The 400 probably wouldn't cut it for straight guitar, but the Session 1000 might do a decent job, and I think it's almost 20 pounds lighter than the T/R.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The big question is whether you want to stay with a tube amp or go to the solid state. If you want to stay with a Tube then keep the Twin.

If I were to buy a new steel amp, today, it would be the Peavey Nashville 1000. If I were to buy a used steel amp, it would be a Nashville 400 with the factory tone mod.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Apples and oranges...

The question really is: Is a tube amp "better" than a solid state amp? The answer is, sometimes yes, sometimes no; it depends on the player, guitar, gig, and application.

I prefer a tube amp for non-pedal or Bigsby playing, unless the volume onstage is loud. Then I go with solid state (Evans) amplification. For traditional pedal steel playing, I prefer solid state regardless of volume levels onstage.

Ricky Davis prefers Twin Reverbs. He sounds great. I prefer Evans amps. I sound great.

Is a nail gun better than a tack hammer? If you're framing a house, probably yes. If you're building a bookcase, probably no. Both do the same job, basically, but are appropriate for differing applications.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Ya got any mud left over? I might try to mud-face my Evans.

Greg Derksen · From: Alberta, Canada

Craig, I think your twin is better for your
Strat, but the peavey would be better for
your steel,but its apples and oranges in a
sense, Herb nailed it (pun) for me the
classic Pedal Steel tone is CLEAR, the peavey
will deliver that tone, however if you were
to put a 15" widow or JBL in that twin, it would be awesome for your steel, but I'll bet you would'nt like your strat tone as much.
Greg

emil noothout · From: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Is there a big difference between those two amps on the following: clean sound-level that can be obtained on stage? (i would guess so as the Peavey has almost twice as much power)

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

The Peaveys would have an edge at very high volume levels, due to the higher power and the "steel-voiced" speakers.

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

I'm not sure the power of a Session 400 is actually twice that of a Twin. If you compared the two side by side you may not think the Peavey twice as loud. Someone explained that tube power and SS power (RMS wattage) are heard a little differently, tube amps will distort with even harmonics which are actually pleasant up to a point, SS amps have different harmonics and their distortion is, to most ears, not pleasant. That's why a SS amp needs the extra headroom. You don't want to hear any distortion from that amp.

Of course with large bands at todays stage volumes (miked drum kit, etc.) you'll be running more gain and the twin will distort too much for that clean sound. Also the PSG pickup sends a higher voltage signal than a strat and overloads the preamp.

I keep my fingers crossed for the perfection of these new "modeled" amp pre-amps. Coupled with a modern SS power amp and/or digital amp we might see the lightweight hybrid we've all been waiting for. The trick seems to be designing an amp chip that has the dynamic characteristics of a tube amp.

J. Russell

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

One more thing: I think the main hindrance to good tone with a guitar using a steel guitar amp is the speaker. Strats, Teles, etc. seem to sound much better with 12" speakers, or 10s. I play both thru my N-ville 1000 and can get an acceptable tone for guitar. In order to do it I have to radically re-set the graphic EQ I use (drop the lows, boost the highs and bring in some mids). It's a pain, but not as much as hauling two amps.

JR

Craig Villalon · From: Charlottesville Va.

Thanks everybody for your replies to my question. I really prefer the sound that the tubes supply...i find the solid state abit too sharp and bright for my liking...i have started using a hand truck or my teenage sons for hauling around the twin.. and my steel...in terms of volume, this '66 is louder than any other i have heard...confirmed by three different guys who have worked on it for me....if i need more, i just mike it!!! i think the idea of replacing the 12 inch speakers with a 15 is an interesting one...since i have been just starting to figure out the C6th neck , with its lower tones, the 15 in may serve me better...anyway thanks for sharing the wisdom and happy holidays!!!

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I think the main difference for me is the lack of a parametric midrange control on the Twin.Tube vs Solid State rhetoric,power ratings and weight issues not withstanding-if a Twin had more comprehensive EQ,I think it would make a fine(tho slightly underpowered)steel amp.As it sits tho,you can only get one basic sound from a Twin and it's a good one.And that and an old Sho-Bud might be all you need.But on Peaveys,Webbs,Evans and other steel amps,you've got enough EQ to make any steel sound like any other steel-and those kinds of differences reside in the midrange frequencies.Outboard EQ could be the answer or maybe if you could get somebody to re-voice the Twin's mid control to cut a fairly narrow band at around 2Khz,you might get close to that scooped-out,hollow twang that steel amps can get so easily - AND still pick a Tele thru it with some credibility. -MJ-

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

JWA:

Yer right. Tubes do rule. I used a Vibrosonic for about 15 years and there were only a couple club gigs when the volume wasn't enough. Mine wasn't meticulously maintained, I retubed it when I could but that got expensive. When the tube sockets corroded out and needed replacing I started looking at a SS alternative.

I haven't been totally satisfied with my tone since and I've tried most of the Peaveys. My new N-Ville 1000 comes pretty close but you've gotta tweek it. There's something fat and sweet about a tube amp, I dunno, it's just a natural sound. Solid state amps sometimes get there, but you have to work with it and adjust 'em, it seems that with tube amps, you just plug in and there's your sound. It might be from all those years I played guitar and not steel, always playing Fenders. Tone was something you just never worried about.

Yet, still, I go to Steel guitar shows and most of the guys are playing the same gear I use and getting sweet sounds. It's a conundrum I'm still trying to sort out.

John

Johnne Lee Ables · From: Minnesota, USA

JWA and All,

If you want an inexpensive 'Vibrasonic' clone, there is a neat Web site with full instructions on reproducing one. I have one that I put together using the instructions, and it is a killer - it was cheap, but took a while to find everything. It has fooled any # of 'tweed and tube freaks'. But, it still has all the same problems as any tube amp - you've all experienced them. I do use it at home for guitar, and when I have my old dbl 8 working, I'll try the 'Vibraclone' with that as well. I would never use any tube amp without a SS back-up though.

If $$$ permitted I'd have a PSA-1 and a Weber 15" speaker. The amp, tube or SS, wouldn't matter a wit then. :-)

Johnne

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