Vietnam era - Iraq era music

Sherman Willden · From: Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA

So, we had the doors, et al, during the Vietnam era. What song list do todays soldiers relate to?

Sherman
Battle Notes: Music of the Vietnam War-2nd edition

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/04/music.soldiers.song.ap/index.html

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158642,00.html

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Music/01/01/music.nelson.reut/

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I bet Toby Keith ranks prety high!

Somehow, after 9/11 and the subway bombings in England, the line..."We'll put a boot in their ass, it's the American way." seems a little more befitting than..."All we are saying, is give peace a chance".

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 09 August 2005 at 05:17 PM.]

David Cobb · From: Chanute, Kansas, USA

In broadcasts of our guys in the field, where they're out shaking hands with the kids on the street, etc., it seems there's always rap music booming in the background.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I'm afraid that's what passes for music these days.

Personally, I miss 'Fortunate Son,' 'For What It's Worth,' and many other examples of real music from a nostalgic era.
I won't get started; I know I'm old.

Ron Page · From: Penn Yan, NY USA

Some Hag's earlier recordings are as relevant today as they were during that earlier era. One, "Soldier's Last Letter" was a hit years earlier for ET; can't recall who wrote that one.

Some other Hag songs of military support and interest are:

- The Fightin' Side of Me
- I Wonder If They Ever Think of Me
- Me and Crippled Soldiers
- Jesus Take a Hold
- That's The News
- Billy Overcame His Size

------------------
HagFan

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

It seems that modern equivalents of Vietnam era anti-war songs would not be tolerated today.

There was more tolerance for freedom of expression then.

There is even a lack of tolerance for pro-war songs. Toby Keith's "Courtsey of the Red White and Blue" is a good example.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Well Joey ,things were different then on a lot of accounts.

One, During Vietnam, our country had neither been attacked nor declared war apon. I don't remember though. I think I was stoned.

Two, most here probably were dirtying their diapers when I recieved a lottery number of 262 in 1972. I don't remember a single hit song that glorified the undeclared wars on North Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.*("The Ballad of the Green Berets" was the only one I remember, and I think Barry Sadler ended up blowing his brains out finally, bless his heart..) We all knew Merle was a three time loser and was coked out of his mind when he did "Okie In Muskogee", and doubted his sincerity somehow afterward, likeable as he was and is..

I think back then, the public sentiment was real and under-reported. Today it seems more hyped by the media with very few actual followers save a few that just lost their government meal tickets in the last couple elections and confused malcontents....

If nothing else we've come to doubt and scorn the news media in our vast majority.

We went from Walter Cronkite: "That's the Way it Is..." to Dan Rather: "Even if the Documents are Forgeries..."

We went from the Smothers Brothers to the Dixie Chicks....

Maybe it's true that "we won't get fooled again..".

EJL

PS/. I think we're still looking for WMDs in Germany and Japan...

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

"The fightin' side of me" isn't just about supporting the war. It's about attacking war protesters here at home.

We are supposed to be have freedom of speech. that means we should be able to say anything we want without fear of retribution. The song, under the guise of patriotism, is one of the most anti-Amercan songs ever written.

When I was gigging, I always refused to play it. When asked to do so, I always said I didn't know it. I've played at Republican fund raisers, and other politically conservative events. I always figured it was my job to make the singer sound good, not to express my political views. But I drew the line at that song.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Pretty hard to know what's going on in someone else's head - maybe TK is pandering with FSOM, maybe not. But I don't believe for a second that Merle wrote that as a pandering tune back in '69/'70 or thereabouts. He took heavy criticism for it - I think that's just the way he thought about it. And I'll guarantee you I didn't do it with my band as a pandering gesture. Most of the musicians around here and much of my audience are very much bent the other way. I got tired of people around me making outrageous statements about the country, and this song expressed how I felt at the time. I've played many songs bent the other direction, at the request of some of these same people, never whined once. It's music, it's supposed to be about expressing honest feelings, at least that's what I thought. I guess it's about whose ox is being gored.

As far as FSOM not being good music, Charlie, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Mike, I don't think FSOM is about "supporting the war". I always interpreted it as anti-"runnin' down our country", and pro-"supporting our military". To wit:

"And I don't mind 'em switchin' sides and
Standin' up for things that they believe in
When they're runnin' down our country, man
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me"

I think it's possible to support the country and the people in the military, and even still criticize some particular military action. I realize the lyrics are a bit inflammatory, but many people are inflamed by those who they feel do not fundamentally 'support the country'. Apparently, this kind of direct honesty is not permissible anymore, on either side. That's my concern here. I'm sure the "Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die Rag" would be equally attacked by the 'other side', if it was presented on commercial radio (not much chance of that, eh?).

Hey, I respect anybody's decision to not play some particular song. I just found some new musicians to work with. I just think we've gotten a little bit 'constipated' as a society, and that is definitely reflected in our popular music.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

I agree Dave. Those songs would not be tolerated today.
Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth" would never make it in today's environment.

Eric is correct that we hadn't been attacked, etc. back in those days, but I don't believe that should make a difference on our freedoms. I also didn't take Merle's lyrics seriously, especially after "Okie".

We're drifting into Politics, quite possibly my fault, so lets be careful to keep this about music.

What are the troops listening to today?

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Joey, we play For What It's Worth most nights, and it goes over great. Often by request.

Roland gets off into some Stat psycodelic pyrotechnics either before or after, we do the song.

Actually most of our cover tunes are Viet Nam era, since most of the vacationers who can afford to come to our lil island in the sun are from the same period.
Fortunately our originals go over just as well.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Well, now that politics has been brought up and declared off limits, those of us with unpopular beliefs will have to shut up as usual, even though this war is supposedly being fought over free expression and democracy.

But if this topic is about wartime music, we should spend 5 seconds remembering what was heard furing WWII.
There, that was nice. No problem.

Ok. Things have changed a lot since Korea and Vietnam. Now, if you have a contrary view of the music that 'supports the war,' you are on Toby Keith's fighting side.
Mike is 100% right. It's a come-down on all those who don't support military action to instill democracy. It's an adolescent dream of a domestic enemy, who thinks there's a better way to dispute resolution, when in reality we are all free to express a dissenting viewpoint if we're not afraid to.

You can't separate the politics of Vietnam from the music any more than you can in the current situation.

What are they serving now? I'd say C-Rap goes with their C-rations.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Joey.

Before the marianna rolls too far down the hill, "For What it's Worth" was MUSIC. ALL of CSNY was. Most of the TK CDB Lee Greenwood etc, stuff in comparison is crap.

Nowadays politics isn't selling music like it once was..I thank god it's gone back to bare midriffs and large mammaries..

For me?

"Gimme an F..."

EJL

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

I don't think we're talking politics here.
We're talking about music.

DD, Your band performing Viet Nam War era songs in the Far East is interesting. I suspect that some of the tourists are revisiting the land they served their country in. You're playing the music they were listening to the first time around.

"If there's going to be any folk songs about World War Three we better start writting them now." - Tom Lehrer 1968

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I realize a discussion like could easily veer into pure politics. I am trying to keep this about music, not politics or even political-correctness. But why do people care about music? Particularly, why would soldiers, who are getting shot at to 'help make the world safe for democracy', care about music? It better speak to them, viscerally and in-the-moment. Just my opinion.

Part of my earlier post concluded that, these days, many, many 'soldier-age' young people are into rap or hardcore styles. Most combat soldiers are relatively young, and my sense is that their musical tastes, on average, veer this way also. I teach college students every day, many in ROTC. I'm not just talking completely out of my hat, although I admit this is an overly broad brush.

When I think about the reasons for this shift in musical tastes, my earlier point was that, in my opinion, practitioners of those musical styles are tapping into something that is relevant to these people. Rappers and hardcore rockers are very 'non-politically-correct'. They don't care one brass farthing about what 'old pharts' like us think about their music or lyrics. Why should they? Think about it - like it or not, this is reality-based music for many people.

Why has the music most of us love lost this connection? My opinion: political-correctness and the unwillingness to take risks and really say something, for fear of saying something controversial and being censured [perhaps I am also risking this.] Middle-aged people, in general, have always been less willing to take real risks - they have too much to lose. Why should young people, especially soldiers who take life-threatening risks every day, listen to 'safe' music? They haven't in the past. Maybe we think it's C-Rap, but if we want to change it, we need to connect to these people, and one doesn't do it by 'playing it safe'. Of course, just my opinion again.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Could it be as simple as they listen to music that reminds them of home?

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I imagine so. But if they listened to classic rock or country music at home, wouldn't that remind them of home? I was trying to address the question "Why rap/hardcore?", about which so many of us middle-agers wring our hands and wonder "Where did we go wrong?".

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Interesting thread.
No we can't separate the political realm from the music in this case.

It does seem the rappers are willing to be more un PC than the other genres at this time and place. Maybe because of the high number of inner city kids on the front lines.

Our bands demographic is :
Austrailian, German, Norwegian, UK, Danish, French, Swedish, New Zealand, assorted asian countries, and suprisingly few yanks. Yet they all know the music of the Viet Nam ear quite well.

Heck we even have one Britainy Spears for the younger crowd... she wouldn't recognize our version LOL.
We also do Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain.. for perspective.
And Ohio and assorted by The Band and Dylan.
And som Ray and James too.
Still we do a lot of originals every night too. That's why I'm there ; the original music.

All the local Thai bands all play the same songs .
Assorted classic rock and hard rock, something resembling rockabilly / Elvis country,
and sad, sad, showband dance music...Auugh!

and we are the only ones covering this other stuff. So we stand out.

The music of any war period reflects the hopes
and fears of the public, in a rather clear way in retrospect.

I sure do love the WW II ear music, it was hopeful. And swung it's butt off.
Few songs were looking overtly patriotic, like in WW I ; Over there, Over there, etc.

It was more a release/escape for the public from the unrelenting preasure of the war.

This young mans song may be the tip of the iceburg going in the ; why am I here now, direction as fatigue sets in.
We'll see.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

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