Agathis, Alder, Poplar: Guitar Body ???'s

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Hey Gang,
So what's the deal with Agathis?
Is this just a fancy name for "Pine"?
And what are the advantages or tonal quality characteristics of Agathis vs. Alder vs. Poplar, guitar bodies???

Reason for asking?...

I want to buy an inexpensive Srat style guitar, and have been looking at and playing some of the Squire brand Affinity Series and Standard Series Strats ($149-$219): http://www.squierguitars.com/gear/gear.php?node_id=2235

... and the Fender Standard Series Strats which start at $349. http://www.fender.com/gear/gear.php?node_id=2460

FWIW, I have found that I prefer the tone of the Fat Strat guit's, that have the humbucker in the bridge position.
Also, I'll probably be blocking the tremolo so it won't budge, so that's not a concern (I see some of them tout a Floyd Rose system).

Thanks in advance for sharing any insight you may have!
Pete B.

Alvin Blaine · From: Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA

Agathis is an evergreen tree that grows From Malaysia to New Zealand, including Malesia, the Philippines, New Guinea, Melanesia and Australia.
It not really a pine tree, it looks more like a magnolia tree to me.

I don't know how it sounds for guitars, but more of the low-end instruments are using it.
Just go play one and if you like the way it sounds then go for it.
The first Fender Esquire's were made out of pine then they changed to ash. I like ash tele's, I've never played one of the pine ones.

[This message was edited by Alvin Blaine on 06 January 2004 at 11:25 AM.]

Chris Lasher · From: Blacksburg, VA

For what it's worth, this might be an excellent question for the Fender Info Base forum. There are many knowledgable people on there, particularly when it comes to guitar guts. The folks in the USA Custom Guitars forum are particularly adept at answering questions specifically about woods. I will tell you that they would probably recommend alder over the other two. You may also find USA Custom Guitar's wood descriptions page helpful, as well. I have several other links to websites that provide very good tonal descriptions of guitar woods, though I favor USACG's.

I think what you will find in the FIB forum, and from my own personal bag of recommendations, is to purchase a used Fender Mexican Strat, rather than a brand new Squier. The quality of the components is typically better, and that makes for an overall more satisfying instrument to play. Best of luck in your Strat-hunting. I absolutely love good Stratocasters!

Edit: I'm going to have to go to the thesaurus to find a synonym for "particularly"... Good grief.

[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 06 January 2004 at 03:55 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Simply put, it's a species of tropical pine tree. The wood has a nice grain, but is rather light and soft. It's used primarily because it's plentiful in Asia, as well as in Australia. It is inferior to ash and alder for solid-body guitars, and has no exceptional "tonal qualities" that I'm aware of.

John Floyd · From: R.I.P.

In my opinion swamp ash and alder are a compromise, hard ash is a pretty good wood, I like mahogany or walnut. They are expensive, but sustain for ever. The trade off is they are heavy. Depends entirely what you are looking for, how much weight you want to shoulder and how much you are willing to pay for a superior tone. I've been looking at some bodies from Warmoth to replace the alder bodies on my G&L Asat Special and my American Deluxe Nashville Bbender Tele. they are both made of alder and I don't particularily care for the sound of alder. Once you've had a body made of something like hard ash or mahogany, you are never quite satisfied with alder.

[This message was edited by John Floyd on 12 January 2004 at 11:37 PM.]

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I'm sure it's a kin of cottonwood. Grows fast and is easy to run through a sawmill.

My favorite local guitar player liked his Squire better than his Burton. Go figure.

A guy I've been working with lately got a "Carvin Kit" "Strat type" rig. Ash body and unfinished. I want to see and hear it.

I've got a low end strat copy that does OK for me but I'd buy the lower American Tele or Strat if it were I.

I do know that whatever price you get at Guitar Center, they'll at least match it at Portland Music.

Now that I think about it give Kurt Radtke a call at Pioneer Music. He's the most knowledgeable guy I know about tele/strats, and what's what nowadays.

Tell him I said Hi.

EJL

Jack Francis · From: Queen Creek, Arizona, USA

About 5 years ago I bought a Squire "Pro Tone" and put on a American trem system.

I had a few bucks and went looking for an American made Strat..after playing the Pro Tone awhile I couldn't put it down.

It's made of ash and has a better finish than ALL of the American mades that I tried. (Sounds more like a Tele in the bridge position than my Tele does!)IMHO

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Interestingly, I find the $149 Affinity series Strat Special sounds like a killer Tele in the bridge position, and sounds pretty darn Strat "quack-ee" in positions 2 and 4 (non staggered pole piece pickups, which I read somewhere are ceramic(?). It plays nice enough for me and looks killer IMHO.
The tech where I like to shop (Ross, at Tigard Music), says the maple necks tend to shrink, leaving the frets hanging over a bit, but they can be dressed as needed.
The $219 Standard series Squire Strat comes with a rosewood neck and Alnico staggered pickups. It sounds rich-er with regard to Strat tone than the Affinity series.
Now I'm looking at a few hardtail Fender models (no tremolo).
There is a Robert Cray model for about $525, and an American Series for about $825.

The hard tails claim to stay in tune and sustain better. I haven't seen one in person yet but they have a used Robert Cray at GC that I will check out this week. http://www.music123.com/search/?src=robert+cray&search_combo=es
http://www.fender.com/gear/gear.php?partno=0117432

I don't see a Squire with a hardtail.

I'm gonna play a few more and get something eventually.

Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

A friend of mine calls the weird wood that some of the new imports are made with "LKS", an acronym for "Lesser Known Species". I just checked out the new Squires for a friend of mine and I thought they looked pretty cheap, maybe good for a beginner or a kid. If you don't mind buying a used guitar, I would suggest looking for a Tokai strat copy. I have two of them, an AST 62, which is a copy of a "62" strat with a rosewood neck, and a TST 56 which is a copy of a "56" strat with a maple neck. They both sound great and feel like vintage Fenders. Tokai was sued by Fender in the mid 1970's for making too good of a copy. I think that the new Japanese Fenders are made in the Tokai factory. I bet you could find one for about $250 to $350. If you have to have a new guitar, G&L are making some moderately priced Strat and Tele copies that look like they are pretty good, I don't remember what they are calling them though. I have also played some Mexican Strats and Tele's that were pretty good, a lot better than the new Squires. ESP's are also good guitars, and they make Strat copies. You might also think about building one yourself using Allparts or Warmouth parts. Good Luck!

[This message was edited by Bob Watson on 13 January 2004 at 02:29 PM.]

[This message was edited by Bob Watson on 13 January 2004 at 02:30 PM.]

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Thanks for the info, Bob.
Hey, did you happen to see any non-tremolo Strat style guits in your search?
I think that is what I'm more interested in.
Thx,
~pb

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Hey Pete, there are basically 2 types of wood, hard and soft. Hardwoods have leaves-oak,poplar,alder,ash,etc. Softwoods have no leaves, pine, evergreen, etc. Hardwoods have density weight and tone. I have an all mahogany Gibson MM, an alder and a mahogany carvin, and play out every week with an alder nashville tele. The best sounding guitar I ever owned was a swampash tele now played by my son. My maple ZB is also spectacular sounding! Thanks for lettin me voice be heard! JimP

Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

Pete, I haven't seen any Strats without tremolo bars on them lately, but anybody who has experience setting up a Strat would know how to do a good job blocking the tremolo. I think that Peavey has some Strat copies that don't have tremolo bars that are worth checking out. I just have the bridge set up flush to the body and I have all five springs in it. I can do doublestop bends on both of my Strats without the string not being bent going out of tune. I just got the TST 56 and it amazes me how much it sustains. I think it is an ash body. If you really want to get that "Strat" sound, I would stick with a guitar that stays true to the original design, using the original style pickups. Strats are very versital guitars. I play a lot of different styles (C&W,R&B,Rock and Jazz) and the Tokai AST 62 that I have been playing for the last 16 years sounds great on all of them. For Jazz gigs, I just put it on the neck pickup and back off of the tone knob for that pickup. A friend of mine likened it to an ES 175 one time. I have heard some great Strats with humbuckers on them, but IMHO I would get aquainted with a basic strat first.

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