Disposable music

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

We live in a disposable culture, we have disposable diapers, disposable cameras, disposable cars, 'hey Merle, you gonna rebuild that Yugo'. So it makes perfect sense that we would have disposable music with easily forgettable lyrics. Look at all the fast food joints, they all basically taste the same and if the flavor was memorable, they wouldn't need all that advertising to remind you and look at how many burgers they've sold. This certainly looks like the 'business model' for what has happened to all of the musics.

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

I agree with you on the disposable music, it's just that I wish they'd dispose of it before I have to listen to it!

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

I think you have something there, Chas. I'm suprised the Bic company hasn't already thought of this.

Rick

John Sims · From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL

All :country music" today is disposable in my opinion.

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John

Steelin' is a way of life!

My PSG website-Carter SD-12-U, 8p/5k, Nashville 1000

TomP · From: Encino Ca

The world of music does seem to be moving in that direction. Today you can be reviewed in major media print publications as a musical "artist" if your musical ability is only putting together songs recorded by others, mixed with a few sound effects: you're a DJ/Mixer and can sell this product, put on shows, etc., etc.
As people who actually play instruments, we should all try our best to do something to stifle this trend. Besides whine to each other, we should whine to any and everyone we know and meet who might be in a position to promote actual musical performance, live and recorded. Needless to say, this goes beyond steel, so for wider whining acceptance and to prevent counter-whining about country music, be prepared to talk in general terms about popular music as a hole (no jokes here). [I actually misspelled "whole" subconciously! Didn't even notice 'til I posted. Just goes to show...]

[This message was edited by TomP on 19 May 2001 at 08:59 AM.]

erik · Posted 19 May 2001 8:43 am

People listen to remixed music in a club for a different experience than hearing a live performance. And DJs do travel and perform their craft at venues. Don't know how exciting Country Music would sound in a remixed environment, though - i'm speaking specifically about electronic generated dance music.

Robert Todd · From: Atlanta, Georgia USA

I couldn't agree more. Look at the Derailers out of Austin, or the Billygoats out of Nashville. Both really tight, sing bettter than most chart artists and can't get a record contract. WHAT'S WRONG WITH POP MUSIC!!!!! The business has made it all bland crap! The Record labels have ruined music today it all sucks!

Franklin · Posted 19 May 2001 10:21 am

"One man's garbage is another man's treasure".
Paul

Jeff A. Smith · From: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.

I like the analogy of fast food that was used. There's someone I've met recently who is very much into the organic alternatives in nutrition, growing much of his family's own food, has researched how chemicals are screwing everything up, etc. I buy potatos from him, and I minimize red meat in my diet, But if I really wanted to go the whole way, it would take a major commitment.

I don't think it's impossible for commited people to create musical alternatives that are based on values that are more lasting. It would involve changing the musicians' mindset that relies on the existing musical establishment for success. If people create their own success on a local or regional level, establishment people are impressed with this, as they possibly would be by any loosely organized grassroots movement on a national level. But as I say, I feel people need to be prepared to go in a diection that doesn't rely on the "establisment".

Of course the audience has to already be there, or be at the point of readiness.

The internet makes many things possible in this area. Here we are, already talking about it.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Since it's not about steel guitarists or their music (which I hope is not considered "disposable" by anyone here), I'm moving this from Bar Chatter to Music.

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-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
-System Administrator

Sage · From: Boulder, Colorado

Mr. Cole- I don't care for new country myself but I wouldn't be that hard on it (or Mr. Franklin either) Pop music gives pleasure (or at least a pleasant distraction) to millions of people. It is not deep, or gritty, or emotionally complex. That is why it is easy to listen to IMHO.
Fast food is not deep or gritty or gastronomically complex either. That is why it is easy to eat (the ever popular fat and sugar). It will also kill you dead. I had two steel guitar teacher friends who were killed by a bad diet when they got to their 60's. It is not a pretty way to go.
While the mortal consequences of pop music aren't the same as fast food, there probably is an emotional consequence. Pop music when used as a distraction can suspend the emotional work that is a part of every life, instead of helping one to dig on thru it. Some pop music does have content though, and perhaps it is these few songs that are doubly precious (even if you and I don't like the style).
Well, I'd better stop digging in this here one...

[This message was edited by Sage on 19 May 2001 at 06:21 PM.]

[This message was edited by Sage on 19 May 2001 at 06:26 PM.]

Franklin · Posted 19 May 2001 5:53 pm

B Cole,

"What one hates, another loves." This is why these threads go nowhere in a hurry.

What's disposable depends on the listeners point of view. Its all subjective.

Paul

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Paul, so true, I have friends and colleagues who for the life of them can't understand how I can love and listen to country music and I participate in other forms that would probably raise a few eyebrows in this community.
My original intent was not to open up a whinefest on the state of country music, that's been thrashed about before and all the bitching we do isn't going to change it, but rather state an aspect of the world we live in. For me, I'm surrounded by it, I don't like it and I participate in it which supports and reinforces it. I really don't have an answer on this one.
Oh, and I've played on some really dumb things that payed the bills.
Chas

[This message was edited by chas smith on 20 May 2001 at 01:16 AM.]

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I don't think that we get to know what is disposable. Some of the greatest music ever was written in a big hurry because the composer needed a gig to cover rent.
Mozart wrote some of his piano concertos because he needed a gig when it wasn't opera season.
I like listening to those box set collections from Bear Family. So much of the music is spontanious and was most likely thought of as disposable even by the guys playing it. But there are some real jems waiting to be heard.

I like a bunch of the pop stuff that came out of LA in the late 60's and early 70's. Absolutly disposable music. They just cranked it out. There was a fanastic level of craft coming from the session guys and songwriters.

And then there is plenty music that didn't hold up over time that was thought of as important in its day.

I don't get to know if any of the music I play has any importance or not. It doesn't matter to me. I'll do it anyway.

Chas,

So are you using the term disposable as in music done for some gig that has no cultural significance attached to it.
Or disposable as in something you don't like ?

Bob

erik · Posted 20 May 2001 2:34 am

I agree with Chas and Sage, in that things are different today and many people (including myself) seek out instantaneous gratification from entertainment for lack of time and a wealth of competing mediums.

The difference in music is that so many of the simplistic easy songs of yesterday were much more memorable because of the basic chords and melodies. Trying to write songs, i have found it is very difficult to come up with a new melody that hasn't been covered before. This in itself may explain why todays songs in many genres sound odd, confused in some cases. They take turns you don't expect. And lyrics: Yes, some are not so good. This is a reflection of society as a whole, IMO. The best most clever lyrical writers lived in the early 20th century. The people who wrote the musicals and the POP standards.

RE Mozart: I am not a fan of this composer. I think he is greatly overrated.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

There has always been "disposable music".

The great tunes of the past are the ones we remember because they were (usually) the best. There were a lot of tunes that did not stand the test of time.

Find an old top 100 list and see how many can be remembered today. Not many.

There's some great new songs that will stand the test of time. Most won't, but that the same as in the old days.

Some of my old favorites somehow are forgotten by most. I suspose that proves PF comments about "one's man's treasure.."

-j0e-

jlsmith48 · From: blackwell ok usa

I have the good fortune of playing in a band where the other members are 15 to 30 years younger than me. I've learned to appeciate some of the newer Country music and I've introduced them to classic sounds. Give and take is the name of the game. There is a market for change and you might as well get used to it or you are going to get left behind and wind up playing for yourself in your bedroom. How many people griped about Ray Price in the early 60s when changed things? With some reservations,I say that, in 20 years these kids will be just like us and saying how they miss the artists and music that is popular today. Live with it!!! Times and music will continue to change. Thats my opinion for what its worth. Please don't cuss me for what I think. I would hope that was what this thread was all about. BTW I am partial to twin fiddles and steel in every song to be recorded in the future!!!!!

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

quote:
So are you using the term disposable as in music done for some gig that has no cultural significance attached to it.
Or disposable as in something you don't like

Bob - It's not so much about what I like and dislike, I like 'Surfer Bird' by the Trashmen and that's not heard very often, and I like some of the punk stuff, it's stunning that so much rage can be conveyed through the speakers and I really don't want to hear that every day.
I think it's more about my perception of the intent of the writers and producers. "Ok, this afternoon we're writing a hit for so and so, we've got the A-team booked to record it, promotion is in place..." And I'm sure that the A team is going to take what they've got to work with and do the best they can with it, that's why they're the A-team. If the A-team doesn't want it, then there's the B team or C team.
A few years back I got a call to play on a song for a Russian pop star. In Hollywood there's a facility that's a factory for cranking out product for the Russian media. It was like an oom pa pa oom pa pa kind of song and they wanted some steel guitar on it, they didn't care so much what I did as long as I did a lot of it. So I did my best impression of Ralph Mooney on amphetamines and they were pleased.

Back to intent, if music and our participation in music wasn't so important to us, we wouldn't be here talking about it and our percieved transgressions against that which is meaningful to us. When the intent appears to be to crank out a song that will stay on the charts long enough to generate a lot of money then be forgotten so that another one just like it can be cranked out to do the same by people whose only vested interest in music is to enrich themselves then I feel that something that is very important to me has been sullied.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Erik - I disagree that Mozart is overrated and without getting too deep into this, I think one has to take into consideration the time frame when he lived, who he had to work for, the caliber of the players avaiable and who his audience was. If the players can't play it, it's the composer who sounds bad. If your employer and audience wants to hear easily accessible music and you want to work then that's what it's going to be. It's the same thing today, the dowagers who support the orchestra want to hear their Mozart in the most unchallenging way. Also, because a lot of his music is accessible it gets played by unimaginative interpreters. It's just dots, squiggles and lines on paper. He died in poverty at the age of 35. Given the restrictions that those guys had to work with, what they did was brilliant.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Chas,
I love that tune Surfin Bird myself but am partial to the Ramones version.

I used to think Mozart sounded pretty twirpy but then one day I was playing string bass in a community orchestra and I got it. Once I was able to hear Mozarts music my perception was changed forever. If a flower could sing as it bloomed it would be singing Mozart.

I always look forward to having that experience with other sorts of music that I don't currently like or understand.

Bob

Jeff A. Smith · From: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.

The intention of those in charge of the project. That's interesting. A few days ago I was listening to some stuff that had Paul doing some of the steel parts. I don't see how ANYONE could listen impartially to much of the current country and not be tremendously impressed by the level of musicianship, and the talent with which parts are added and arranged. To try to listen to these songs like a producer analyzing the various parts, is to develop a deep appreciation.

Still, the disposable thing. I wonder if there is some overriding intention that keeps everything that is positive here from becoming truly memorable to more people. Even the people that I know who are into the new country move from artist to artist pretty quickly, whereas for me personally I find people that I can listen to for years and years, long after they're popular. That could just be a personal thing.

I know that we're not just talking about country music, but that's what I've been listening to the most lately, of what is current.

I agree that it requires a listener to make a judgement as to whether or not a music is good or bad. In that way it's definently subjective. But with all respect to Paul, I do have to wonder if the longevity of a music's appeal, and the way it can transcend different cultures and still reach people in a deep way, may suggest some kind of inherent worth that a musical passing fad may not have. (I realize to actually judge its worth would require a subjective judgement).

I guess tone is subjective

in that Bach could play harpsichord or pipe organ and still be at the same level, but I don't know that I'm yet comfortable putting THE MUSIC of Bach on the same level as Garth Brooks or the Beastie Boys.

I don't have any intention of being argumentative, but this kind of thought has been going on in me since we got into the "tone is subjective" thing. Tone may be subjective, but is MUSIC? I'm not so much talking about the physical fact of music, but the level of mind that it comes from. It really ammounts to saying there is no good or bad in anything. Maybe there isn't, beyond kind of a functional subjective valuing process that helps us navigate through life. I'm not saying what the answer is, only that these are the implications to what we're talking about.

What does anybody else think?

[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 20 May 2001 at 06:23 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 20 May 2001 at 06:27 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 20 May 2001 at 06:34 PM.]

ebb · From: nj

have to agree with pf here. erik's garbage is my divine 2nd movement from the duo concertante, the ethereal requiem and the non disposable cossi. not to mention the incredible wind serenade in Bb. erik must be the glenn gould of the steel guitar.

erik · Posted 20 May 2001 7:04 pm

ebb,
First, i did not call Mozart's music "garbage". I am partial to Bach. But would rather hear Haydn or Beethoven if i were gonna go classical.

Why would you call me the Glenn Gould of steel guitar? Where did THAT come from? Are you saying a person who likes steel can't like a Country song without steel?

ebb · From: nj

glenn was the most famous and most talented mozart basher. listen to the 1955 goldberg variations for your preferred bach. as i concur that bach is the pinnacle i disagree with glenn and yourself about mozart. since i haven't heard you play you might be the most talented mozart dismisser.

P Gleespen · From: Toledo, OH USA

(in Homer Simpson's drooling voice)

"mmmmm, Surfin' Bird...."

Surfin' Bird may very well be, in my opinion, the single greatest ode to birds on surfboards ever written.

(on a slightly related note, I was just in NYC and they were having the annual Joey Ramone birthday bash. Very sad. The Ramones were one of my first favorite bands.)

One man's trash is another man's garbage, the removal of which is still another man's job.

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