ElectronicTuner not best method?

Mike McBride · From: Indiana

I tune my 6 string electric guitar with my electronic tuner. The notes all read dead perfect. The guitar sounds better if I tune the D or A to the tuner and then tune all the other open strings to it by ear.

Please explain.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

If it's a simple tuner it will simply line you up with EADGBE on the piano. You need to finish the job by ear, making compromises so that all the common chords sound equally slightly off.

Tuning is an art, not a science and has to be learnt, like the instrument itself.
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

If you're talking about a standard fretted 6-string guitar tuned to the standard lo-hi EADGBE, then the typical harmonic tuning that many if not most pedal steel players use will be way off. The default on most electronic guitar tuners is equal temnperament with a baseline of A=440. There are instances where I will make some very slight adjustments if I find the beats on certain chords really annoying. But taking a pedal steel approach of something close to just intonation - no or minimal beats in chords - will drive most guitar players nuts because some chords will be real sour. I guess if you're just playing some simple major chords, you may be able to get away with going closer to just, but if you are playing lots of chords all over the neck, trying to tune anywhere near just sounds terrible to me.

There are a number of issues to consider. First, how is your 12th fret intonation? The 12th fret harmonic should pretty closely match the fretted note at the 12th fret - i.e., should match at the octave. Second - are the strings good quality and fairly fresh? Third - how is the action? High action can accentuate pitch errors away from the first and 12th frets, even if the 12th fret intonation is good, because the string deflection from a straight string is large. Fourth - how high are the frets and how heavy are the strings. For example, real light strings on real tall frets requires a deft touch to avoid pulling the strings out of tune from heavy pressure. On the other hand, real heavy strings coupled with high action can accentuate intonation errors due to Point #3. Fifth - what kind of tuner are you using? Some tuners are not very good. I've mostly moved to a Peterson StroboStomp HD, which is as good or better than anything I've ever used. In fact, it has sweeteners for standard guitar that might be useful if you first make sure you are in good shape with the other issues I've outlined here.

But there is a fundamental intonation issue with guitars. Guitars, like pianos, are never going to be harmonically in tune all over the spectrum of notes. I think they can be a bit better than pianos because it is possible to control pitch to some extent through how much pressure is applied to the string against the fret, slight bending, ability to tweak tuning a bit, and so on. But serious guitar players, like serious steel players, have to wrestle with playing in tune. Even for guitar, it does not come automatically simply because there are frets.

There is sometimes a tendency for issues with the third string sounding off. If I'm messing with deviating from standard equal temperament, it is usually with the third string, which I may occasionally flatten slightly, which sometimes (for me) necessitates flattening strings 2 (or even 1) slightly. That problem, for me anyway, is aggravated with light strings with a plain 3rd string.

Intonation adjustments are typically made at the bridge. Buzz Feiten (Butterfield Blues Band and others) developed a system to share intonation adjustments between both the bridge and the nut. This system (IMO) does help some, especially in the lower registers.

Personally, I don't worry about most of this. I have moved to mostly fairly heavy strings. For example, my standard Telecaster strings are 12, 16, 20p, 30w, 40, 54. If I don't need the sort of twang you get with a plain 3rd string, I replace 20p with a 22w. I have to move the bridge saddles back pretty far to keep them intonated, but I keep the action fairly low and my intonation problems have mostly been solved without a lot of diddling around. I know a lot of great players use 9-42 sets and high frets, but you really gotta have a real light touch to keep them from going out of tune.

Anyway - this is not a one-size-fits-all problem. Once I got used to pretty-close-to justly intonated pedal steel, I started noticing discrepencies in my guitars' intonation a lot more. Call it a curse, call it a blessing - but it definitely can be a PITA, LOL.

Let me not even get into slide guitar, which comes with its own set of intonation issues. I also mix fretted and slide playing, as well as fret behind the slide. Mixing this stuff requires making serious tradeoffs betwen the more typical equal temperament of fretted guitar vs the more typical just intonation derived from tuning to open chords of most slide and steel guitar players.

Mike McBride · From: Indiana

Thanks for the insights Ian. I started playing in 1977 but took a 30 year break in 1982 to try being an adult. I'm trying to make up for lost time as I sprint towards the finish.

Dave - I have read some of your robust posts before. This one is very thorough and shatters some of my perceptions of physics and the order of the universe. The first man on the moon and I both graduated from the same engineering school. Now I am starting to question the time-space continuum. LOL

Just when I thought I had my guitar figured out.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Everything said above is correct. All I'd like to add is that most all guitars are different, as are most players. Therefore, one setting may work for everyone, and this is true on all steel guitars and straight guitars. Things like different string gauges, different string heights, different scale lengths, and different hand pressure all will change how the instrument must be tuned.

As Ian said, tuning is a skill; not a device or a chart.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

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