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Topic: Pedal 4 suggestions |
Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
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Posted 7 Jan 2025 5:37 am |
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| I'm setting up an MCI SD10. I bought it with Day set up and have changed it to Emmons. I've never used a 4th pedal on E9 and need ideas for what to do with it. I'm not interested in the Franklin changes. Whaddya got? |
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Michael Conway
From:
Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 7 Jan 2025 6:04 am Pedal 4
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| I saw a Tommy White copedent a while back that had a 1st string whole step raise/2nd string half step raise on pedal 4. I know that’s a reasonably popular knee lever change, but always wanted to try it on a pedal. MC |
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Ron Funk
From:
Ballwin, Missouri
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Posted 7 Jan 2025 6:55 am
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Hi Steve -
I've never tried this but Russ Hicks had the following changes on his 1st pedal:
Raise string 6 from G# to B
Lower string 10 from B to A
And his Pedals 2, 3 and 4 were our A, B, and C
Stay warm!
Ron |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 7 Jan 2025 7:38 am
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Many E9 pickers put the "Franklin" change on P4, sometimes sharing the pedal with the C6 neck's A>B changes.
String 5 B>A
String 6 G#>F# - sometimes omitted if this is already on a lever
String 10 B>A
Better minds than mine have chosen thusly |
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Bill C. Buntin
From:
Cleburne TX
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Posted 7 Jan 2025 10:25 am
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| If I were going for something other than the Franklin change, the 1st and 2nd string raise would be my choice. I understand why Tommy W has it there. I've got it on a knee lever, but it would make sense to have it on pedal 4 in order to free up a knee for something else. The 1 and 2 raise is a fairly modern, contemporary change that a lot of us use. |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 7 Jan 2025 11:09 am
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To add some C6 type voicings you could put on pedal 4:
- F#-F on strings 7 and 1, gives the equivalent of pedal 5 on C6 when the E's are lowered ie E9 tuning in "B6 mode".
- A variation of G#-G as described here by Randy Beavers
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=274138&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I add the string 3 G#-G to it also since I have long had the two G#s-G lower but the lowering string 9 also adds a completely different function to the change
I have both of these changes on pedal 5 and 0 respectively.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 7 Jan 2025 11:27 am
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I use it to raise 5 & 6 a whole step to be used with E lower..
_________________
Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 7 Jan 2025 4:55 pm
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That's what I would do. It's a C6 change (P7) that also has meaning in E9
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 8 Jan 2025 9:58 am
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Not necessary but there is an elegance to a pedal's function when it combines well with the pedal(s) beside it.
Like Larry and Ian mentioned, the pedal 7 change is nice. Just doing half of that is good too... ie, keep your C pedal as is with C# & F# raises, and beside it on your P4, raise only string 6 from G#-A#. Then you have a very nice maj7 rub with the B string if you want, but also with the C pedal you can roll into the F# major tonality. This set up is a bit like having P4 and P7 when Es are lowered. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2025 11:50 am
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| For better or worse I lowered the G#s a half step to provide the obvious minor at the root fret. However, there are so many other ways to get a minor I rarely use it. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 8 Jan 2025 4:36 pm
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This is not what Steve asked, so apologies, but I get my minor by lowering 6 a whole tone on a lever, then raising it a half step with the B pedal. I find this split method much more versatile.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Mike Preuss
From:
Mount Vernon, Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2025 5:23 pm
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My current setup has a 0 pedal raising 6 a whole step, which I immediately appreciated. My 4 pedal raises 6 and 7 a half step. This creates a 9th chord that the C pedal can bend into a 13th chord. It offers neat pentatonic blues opportunities too. It's cool, but I am on the fence about keeping those changes on it. I am following this thread with interest.
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https://www.instagram.com/changerfinger/ |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2025 4:07 pm
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For original poster Steve, Assuming you have two knee levers to raise and lower Es, What do your remaining other two knee levers do already?
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2025 8:33 pm
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| Mike Sigler had a pedal that gave him about 5 strings of C6th on his flight guitar. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 10 Jan 2025 6:37 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
| Mike Sigler had a pedal that gave him about 5 strings of C6th on his flight guitar. |
Look at P5 here-
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Danelectro, Evans, Fender, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Rich Ertelt
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2025 9:33 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
| Mike Sigler had a pedal that gave him about 5 strings of C6th on his flight guitar. |
I had p4 set to drop the high G# to F#, and with the lower E knee pedal that gave me B6 I believe. I did this as I'd played a lot of non pedal in C6. As P4, it was easy to press down and I have E lower on LKR, so I would just hold it there.
I now have it moved over to P0, and use it to drop the B a whole step. I don't drop the lower G# as I like the licks I can get between P1, P0 and that static G#.
Just a thought.
Last edited by Rich Ertelt on 10 Jan 2025 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 10 Jan 2025 9:48 am
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On my S10 Williams I use P4 to drop 9 to B and 10 to G#. I hold it there and with LkR E-Eb I have a solid no pedal B6 all the way. I usually avoid the G# on 3.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Danelectro, Evans, Fender, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Tommy Boswell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2025 4:46 am
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| I have a D10 Williams with factory standard setup on both necks. Can pulls be added to my P4 to try some of these ideas for the E9 neck? I almost never use P4, but then I'm a beginner on C6. Just wondering about using P4 for both necks. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 15 Jan 2025 8:35 am
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@Tommy Boswell
I installed a string 7 G# to F on my E9 neck on my JCH D10. Matcing the existing length of pull on the P4 pull strings (C6) 8 and 4, both A's to B.
Pedal 4 did only become minutely heavier to fully press down.
Works excellent together with the E9 LKR(both E's to Eb
B.Erl+andsen
JCH D10 8+8
Zumsteel S12ExtE9 7+7 |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2025 6:31 pm
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I am addicted to the unison raise of 1st string F# to G# and 2nd String D# to E. A lot of guitars have that on the RKL combined with G# to F# lower. Check out b0b's RKL that also raises the F# to G# as well on the same lever!! I think those changes would be a very interesting and versatile 4th pedal, depending on what you already do with your knee levers. The copedant is from b0b's crossover double 12 Williams.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 24 Jan 2025 4:32 am
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| Quentin Hickey wrote: |
On my current guitar I don't have a pedal zero so my pedal 4 doubles with C6.
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How much stiffness does that add, out of curiosity?
(Also, in case you did not realize, that chart has the P4 lower on string 4 instead of 5) |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 24 Jan 2025 5:09 am
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| Joe A. Roberts wrote: |
| Quentin Hickey wrote: |
On my current guitar I don't have a pedal zero so my pedal 4 doubles with C6.
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How much stiffness does that add, out of curiosity?
(Also, in case you did not realize, that chart has the P4 lower on string 4 instead of 5) |
Yes that was a typo when he filled out the chart. It does lower strings 5 and 10. Thr stiffness isn't too bad I've had stiffer pedals with less pulls.
_________________
www.fessendensteelguitars.com
www.quilterlabs.com
www.goodrichsoundcompany.com
www.daddario.com/nyxl
www.bjsbars.com |
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Cappone dAngelo
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Posted 25 Jan 2025 10:29 am
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| Quentin Hickey wrote: |
I am thinking about doing string 1 and 2 raise on pedal zero like Tommy does and splitting up the Franklin change. On my current guitar I don't have a pedal zero so my pedal 4 doubles with C6. I lower string 5 and 10 a whole tone on it and lowered string 6 on a diferent lever.
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I have 5 pedals on my SD10, and I am planning to move my string 1/2 raises to the fifth pedal (P4) (and add a string 7 raise, if I can get the parts at a reasonable cost ...) so that my LKR is just a string 6 lower - which I use a LOT, including to get the dom7 with A+B pedals, to get the sus2-> resolution in home position, and to get a minor chord with the 6 string raise (split). I'm hoping that this will lower the tension of LKR.
I now have the 5th string lower on P0, which when I started playing I saw Paul Franklin recommend (even though he doesn't do it himself, apparently for historical reasons ...) and it made sense, and I do find it very useful to have the Franklin change split. I use each of them separately more than I use them together. But the more I think about it, the Tommy White copedent with the B lower with half-stop on a knee (RKL) makes more sense, though for that to work for me I'd need to move my E lowers from RKL to the left knee, which would take some getting used to but probably makes sense in the long term given that it is more common. |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 25 Jan 2025 11:09 am
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| Cappone dAngelo wrote: |
| Quentin Hickey wrote: |
I am thinking about doing string 1 and 2 raise on pedal zero like Tommy does and splitting up the Franklin change. On my current guitar I don't have a pedal zero so my pedal 4 doubles with C6. I lower string 5 and 10 a whole tone on it and lowered string 6 on a diferent lever.
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I have 5 pedals on my SD10, and I am planning to move my string 1/2 raises to the fifth pedal (P4) (and add a string 7 raise, if I can get the parts at a reasonable cost ...) so that my LKR is just a string 6 lower - which I use a LOT, including to get the dom7 with A+B pedals, to get the sus2-> resolution in home position, and to get a minor chord with the 6 string raise (split). I'm hoping that this will lower the tension of LKR.
I now have the 5th string lower on P0, which when I started playing I saw Paul Franklin recommend (even though he doesn't do it himself, apparently for historical reasons ...) and it made sense, and I do find it very useful to have the Franklin change split. I use each of them separately more than I use them together. But the more I think about it, the Tommy White copedent with the B lower with half-stop on a knee (RKL) makes more sense, though for that to work for me I'd need to move my E lowers from RKL to the left knee, which would take some getting used to but probably makes sense in the long term given that it is more common. |
Yes splitting up changes opens doors definitely but also closes other's so you have to methodically think of what you specifically want to do. That a great idea keeping G# to F# on lkr. I would spam the crap out of that! So what I plan on doing is making sure that I order the right amount of pulls for my pedal 0, rkr and lkv so if the TW thing just doesn't work for me I'll go back to the pf change on pedal 0 but I suspect I will love it.
_________________
www.fessendensteelguitars.com
www.quilterlabs.com
www.goodrichsoundcompany.com
www.daddario.com/nyxl
www.bjsbars.com |
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