Pedal keeps going flat

Chris Anderson · From: Idaho, USA

Hi there,

70's MSA Classic S-10. Really unhappy with this purchase, but that's what you get when you buy on Reverb.

Anyway, my B pedal keeps going flat. Granted I've been playing a couple of hours a day, but I have to tune the raised B pedal (1/2 step) tuning once a day or so. I imagine eventually I'll run out of cranking ability. It's really hard to see up in there to see if there's anything I can adjust or anything slipping. Is this a common problem for MSAs? Pedal Steels in general? Any thoughts on how to stop the problem?

Thanks in advance!

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Far as I know, this is not a problem specific to MSA guitars. My first guess would be a worn out nylon tuner or a bell crank that is slipping and needs to be tightened up on the cross shaft.

Only 2 things I know of that would cause this.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

It could be old strings or a bad set of strings, Causing the problem.
Or the nylon tuning nuts could be slipping, Does the 3rd and 6th strings have aluminum sleeves on the pull rods, And a 1/2" long nylon tuning nut?

Do you have any information on the guitar being serviced.

Turn the guitar over, Look under the guitar, For a date the Changer may have been removed and serviced. Some mechanics, Will put a date under the guitar, If they pull and service the changer. If the changer has not been removed and serviced, That old MSA Classic may need its 50 year bath.

This was the grease put in this MSA Classic, In 1973 when it was built. I had to scrape and then use 0000 steel wool to remove all the old hard grease.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

I got out some pictures of MSA Classics S10 & D10 I owned.
Check out the pull rods on 3rd and 6th strings, Make sure the Aluminum sleeves are on the rods at the changer.

Remove the nylon tuning nuts and check the threads closely. The rod should be square, With a small bevel so the nylon nut will screw on the rod, Cutting clean threads in the nylon tuning nuts.

Turn the guitar over and go to the B pedal cross shaft. Check the brass barrels in the bell cranks. Check the set screw in the end of brass barrels. The rod could be sliding through the brass barrel if the set screw is not tight.
If the set screw was loose. Adjust the tuning nut till it is even with end of pull rod. Loosen the set screw in the brass barrel, And move the pull rod till has a 1/16" free play. Tighten set screw. Try it and see if you need to change it a little, For better setup.

Good luck on this project. Happy Steelin.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Also, Make sure the screw holding the bell crank on the cross shaft is tight. Takes a good grip for a bell crank to hold on a round shaft.

Landon Johnson · From: Washington, USA

Not unusual if the guitar was shipped. I've purchased a brand new guitar, had a friend play it at the factory before it left, and when it got here, it was in pieces. One cross-shaft had worked its way out of the frame and everything was loose.

I had it back together in short order; had I not been somewhat mechanically inclined, I'd have had a real issue.

Why the mfr. did not use a gentle thread lock is beyond me, but with a used guitar this is frequently overlooked before shipping.
_________________
1975 Emmons S-10; 2003 Carter S-10; 2021 Williams S-10; Quilter TT-12 combo; Bose L-1 Pro 16 with TTS-4; EH 'TRON' pedal

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

We always joked about something built on Monday or Friday, Not being properly assembled.
On Friday workers wanting to get day through so they could start partying for the weekend. On Monday they had a hangover, And just showed up for work, Would not do anything right.

Chris Anderson · From: Idaho, USA

The nylon threaded stop at the end of the rod seems good. I think it all stems back to the problem pictured. The bracket is bent. When I first got the steel the pedal was sticking on return but I was able to bend it back so it sort of cleared the frame of the guitar, but over time it has bent back. My guess is that the extra resistance is causing it to slowly slip at the cross-shaft. Where that bracket attaches up at the arm of the <bell> it is loose. The other ones are much tighter and don't allow for so much lateral slop with the bracket. There doesn't appear to be a set screw to tighten that.

I'm going to get a new bracket ordered and see if that helps, but I'm guessing there's something wrong where the bracket attaches at the top and it will just recur.

It's certainly been an issue that previous owners have worked around as there's graphite all over the frame where they tried to keep it from catching.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Compare this pedal rod pull bar to others on the guitar.

There is a plastic/nylon bushing with a shoulder washer that fits in the slot, And a screw with head about width of the bar, That attaches the pedal rod pull bar to the frame, They are missing.
Instead of replacing a missing nylon spacer and screw, Looks like they may have bent to pull bar trying to cobble a cure.

The pull bar could be straightened, But would have to be removed from the guitar to do a proper straighten job.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

The nylon shoulder washer and screw also acts as a primary pedal stop, Sliding in the slot till it reaches end of slot, Then becomes a pedal stop.

Chris Anderson · From: Idaho, USA

I have the screw that attaches the bar. I just unscrewed it for visibility. The nylon washer you are talking about is nowhere to be found though. Where the bar connects to the upper arm is really sloppy. Is this where that nylon washer is supposed to go? I assume this is how that bar got bent over time.

Do you think this is why the B-pedal raised note keeps going flat?

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

The Pull Bar is attached to the aluminum lever with a roll pin, It is a rather loose fit, But gravity pulls everything tight when the guitar is setting upright.

In your picture.
The hole in the body just to the right of the pull bar is where the plastic washer and stand off lays with washer against body, Then the slot in the bar goes over the plastic extension and the screw goes in and holds it in line.

BUT THE PULL PLATE WILL HAVE TO BE STRAIGHTENED SO IT WILL SLIDE UP AND DOWN AS THE PEDAL IS PUSHED DOWN, AND RELEASED.

Sent you a private message.

Chris Anderson · From: Idaho, USA

So many thanks to Bobby Jones for calling me up and walking me through replacing the bell crank assembly. My B pedal moves like new now. Also thanks to Mike from psgparts.com for hooking me up with the parts! The other pedals feel a little clunky in comparison but I'll adjust. The lower G-string is still going flat when the pedal is depressed. The high G doesn't do this so I'm guessing it's something to do with the changer or the nylon end cap. Having gone through a little bit of repair now I have a better sense of what might be the culprit, but still monkeying around with it.

Again, thanks to Bob for sitting on the phone with me while I worked through some of this stuff for the first time. Good to have an old salt standing over my shoulder while doing this stuff.

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