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Topic: New Member Seeks Tunings Advice |
Will Helton
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 18 Dec 2024 9:55 pm |
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Hello, everyone.
My name's Will and I'm a new member to the forum.
After many years of playing other instruments (mainly big band and gypsy jazz guitar and double bass), I've decided to buckle down and really improve my lap steel playing.
To that end, I've recently bought a lovely refurbed 1956 Dual 6. It's a super instrument and I'm already having loads of fun with it.
But the big question for me is what tunings should I opt for? Currently I have the back neck (closest to me) in standard C6 (C E G A C E low to high) and the front neck in "high" A6 (C# E F# A C# E). I've done this for a couple of reasons:
1. Most everything is played in C6. I can also quickly tune the C's up to C# to get an A7 tuning.
2. The high A6 gives me the extra advantage of having the 5 on top so I don't have to move about as much. This is a big advantage for me as I have a tremor in my right hand that makes picking accuracy difficult. I can also quickly tune the E down to D# and have a great B11 tuning.
My main goal is to play Western Swing and early country styles (Bob Wills, Hank Williams, Asleep At The Wheel, etc), so I think these are probably solid tunings to start with.
What do others think?
Given the tremor in my right hand, I'm considering restringing the C6 neck to high C6 (E G A C E G - low to high) so I get the 5 on top here as well.
Any advice most welcome. I'm looking forward to learning a lot and making new friends.
Best,
Will
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1956 Fender Dual 6, Epiphone Electar (reissue), Recording King dobro, Duesenberg Split King lap steel |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 19 Dec 2024 8:02 am
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Are you able to play both necks at once? To be quick enough to start a song on one neck, switch to the other neck at some point without missing a beat?
If so you might want to have a completely different tuning on one of the necks. Anything on C6th can be played on an A6th tuning (at a different fret position)
But a Leavitt type tuning with diminished intervals could be a great addition to get better chords and harmonies on some songs.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 19 Dec 2024 4:03 pm
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If any lap steel tuning can be called “standard” it would be C6, CEGACE so I’d be inclined to leave that neck alone. I’d use the second neck to experiment on until I found a tuning that complements C6 for the music I like to play.
Open D (DADF#AD)gives you a fat bottom and blues/rock feel.
Open G (dobro GBDGBD) opens up all the bluegrass, country, Western Swing stuff.
Or try something more esoteric like GBDF#AD that was favoured by Bob E Lee (b0b) the late founder of this forum.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Will Helton
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2024 10:55 pm
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| Dom Franco wrote: |
Are you able to play both necks at once? To be quick enough to start a song on one neck, switch to the other neck at some point without missing a beat?
If so you might want to have a completely different tuning on one of the necks. Anything on C6th can be played on an A6th tuning (at a different fret position)
But a Leavitt type tuning with diminished intervals could be a great addition to get better chords and harmonies on some songs. |
Hi, Dom.
I'm not bad at swapping between necks, but I need to polish things a bit.
I've not tried the Leavitt tuning before. Sounds intriguing. Would it fit well in a Western Swing/early country context?
I'll definitely add it to my list of tunings to consider.
Do you have any favourite videos featuring players that use the Leavitt tuning? I'd be interested in hearing more.
What are your thoughts (if any) about my idea to move my current C6 tuning from the standard to a "high" C6 = E G A C E G - low to high?
Thanks,
Will
_________________
1956 Fender Dual 6, Epiphone Electar (reissue), Recording King dobro, Duesenberg Split King lap steel |
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Will Helton
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2024 11:06 pm
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
If any lap steel tuning can be called “standard” it would be C6, CEGACE so I’d be inclined to leave that neck alone. I’d use the second neck to experiment on until I found a tuning that complements C6 for the music I like to play.
Open D (DADF#AD)gives you a fat bottom and blues/rock feel.
Open G (dobro GBDGBD) opens up all the bluegrass, country, Western Swing stuff.
Or try something more esoteric like GBDF#AD that was favoured by Bob E Lee (b0b) the late founder of this forum. |
Thanks, Allan.
I've got a standard D tuning [D A D F# A D] on my Duesenberg and the standard G tuning [G B D G B D] on my dobro, so am looking for something a bit more lap steel for my Dual 6.
For instance, Don Helms used an "E6" tuning (really more E6add11) and a B13, so the B neck is a 5th away from his E neck. Maybe I should consider a G dominant tuning for the second neck?
I know Cindy Cashdollar has C6 and A6 tunings on her T8, but then that third neck is some form of dominant tuning (E13?), so she's pretty much got all bases covered.
Any thoughts? I notice on Cindy's website she quotes the higher C6 tuning as an alternative to standard C6 for 6-string steels.
Best,
Will
_________________
1956 Fender Dual 6, Epiphone Electar (reissue), Recording King dobro, Duesenberg Split King lap steel |
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Travis Brown
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2024 7:00 pm
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FWIW, I am not a great lap steel player, but I've been a serious electric guitar player for over 30 years.
I think the idea of C6 and A6 is fairly solid, but I would want exactly the same string intervals on each neck.
So, if a song is in a key that is awkward on one neck, you can move to the other.
For that reason, I would lean more towards C6 and G6 just to push them apart a bit more.
Understand, I am saying this partly because, as a beginner, I think the best thing is to pick a tuning and learn it. A few years down the road, some radically different tuning on the second neck would probly make more sense, because it opens up the harmonic capabilities of the instrument. But right now when you're just starting out, I'd keep things simple. |
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Rich Ertelt
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2024 7:04 am
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When I started out, I used the Cindy Cashdollar teaching videos and had a teacher. Both used C6 with the G on top. Coming from guitar where I played a lot of slide in open tunings (Open G for example), it made sense to me. I know I'd Really miss the m3 interval on the top if it weren't there. So like your A6. Me, I'd keep that one or change the C6 one.
I have a D8, C6 on close neck, E9 on far neck. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 23 Dec 2024 11:39 am
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| Travis Brown wrote: |
Understand, I am saying this partly because, as a beginner, I think the best thing is to pick a tuning and learn it. A few years down the road, some radically different tuning on the second neck would probly make more sense, because it opens up the harmonic capabilities of the instrument. But right now when you're just starting out, I'd keep things simple. |
That would be my recommendation too. As an enthusiastic beginner I bought a Triple 8 Stringmaster and was keen to explore all the tunings. But what helped me as a player is to focus mostly on one. I still use another tuning for certain songs...but there's one tuning I use for 90% of stuff and it's the tuning I come closest to "fluency" on, being able to play naturally, knowing where the notes are, not having to overthink it. So I would say...have a primary tuning and focus most of your efforts there at first (but of course, enjoy tinkering with alternates on that other neck)
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Bill Leff
From:
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2024 7:10 pm
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| Hi Will. A6’and E13 are classic Western Swing tunings. I use both on D8 Stringmaster to play old country and Western Swing. Or use C6 instead of A6. |
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Will Helton
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 25 Dec 2024 11:32 pm
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| Travis Brown wrote: |
I think the idea of C6 and A6 is fairly solid, but I would want exactly the same string intervals on each neck.
So, if a song is in a key that is awkward on one neck, you can move to the other.
For that reason, I would lean more towards C6 and G6 just to push them apart a bit more. |
Thanks for that, Travis.
I'm with you on learning the C6 thoroughly first before getting to involved in what the "best" (it's always relative, really, isn't it?) other tuning would be.
The reason I went for the standard 6-string C6 tuning and the high A6 was so that if I find our singer doesn't want to do a song in a key that sits comfortably on the C6 (like C or D), I can shift over to the A6 neck and have plenty of headroom for going higher while stilly leaving space to drop back lower without playing a lot of open strings.
But I am starting to think I'll go for the high C6 when I next change the strings just because I like having one more pair of strings within easy reach for solos and fills.
_________________
1956 Fender Dual 6, Epiphone Electar (reissue), Recording King dobro, Duesenberg Split King lap steel |
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Will Helton
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 25 Dec 2024 11:34 pm
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| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
| As an enthusiastic beginner I bought a Triple 8 Stringmaster and was keen to explore all the tunings. But what helped me as a player is to focus mostly on one. I still use another tuning for certain songs...but there's one tuning I use for 90% of stuff and it's the tuning I come closest to "fluency" on, being able to play naturally, knowing where the notes are, not having to overthink it. So I would say...have a primary tuning and focus most of your efforts there at first (but of course, enjoy tinkering with alternates on that other neck) |
Thanks, Nic.
Yep, I fully agree. It's good to hear others think the same.
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1956 Fender Dual 6, Epiphone Electar (reissue), Recording King dobro, Duesenberg Split King lap steel |
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Will Helton
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 25 Dec 2024 11:41 pm
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| Bill Leff wrote: |
| Hi Will. A6’and E13 are classic Western Swing tunings. I use both on D8 Stringmaster to play old country and Western Swing. Or use C6 instead of A6. |
I've heard that from a couple of players now, so I reckon that's worth exploring. The only think that makes me a bit hesitant is the number of tunes we seem to play in G. An A6 tuning would have me playing pretty far up the neck for full chords, although I could use single-note lines and diads to play in the mid-range of the instrument.
I'm mainly wanting to avoid back slants at the moment just because I haven't found a bar yet that's really comfortable for that. That being said, I'm in the process of getting Ben Burrow here in the UK to make me a custom bar that will hopefully make that a lot easier.
What tuning would you use for that E13 on a 6-string neck?
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1956 Fender Dual 6, Epiphone Electar (reissue), Recording King dobro, Duesenberg Split King lap steel |
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