Custom Steel Build #3

Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Well Folks here we are again. Another winter and another build.
My 1st build on the forum "The Rare Wood Steel" was built and ended up being sold. The fellow steel player fell in love with it. So reluctantly I let it go. Now I have no idea where it ended up. I saw it for sale on reverb about a year ago.

The 2nd Build The "Rare Wood Steel 2.0 " was built on the forum under the thread title "Custom Steel Build 2.0" in this section. I am happy to say that it is still sitting right behind me as I type this.

We (my wife Lori) and I are getting ready to build another for you folks to follow along if you so wish. This guitar will be built in the true fashion of Mr. Franky...stein. The build promises to have a few new surprises and a old school flavor. Since we have a lot of different manufacturers parts here. We thought why not use some to create a unique guitar. Please understand that we still are in the planning stage and finishing gathering all the parts and accessories that are needed. We will machine the rest...oops!

Here is the specs and a list of what we are using so far
1) This guitar will be a SD-10. We were going to build another D-10 however when trying to purchase some of the parts we needed. We could not reach comfortable deals with the other parties involved, so decided to stay with what we had.
2) We will be using a Derby Key head, neck, and end plates. Emmons Legrande changer with splits. Grover tuners. And underneath...well were undecided it is a toss up...Mullen Bell cranks PRP on Sho-bud 5/16 hex rods. . .

2a) or we have a bunch of Carter parts that we can use. So it could be 3/8 square shafts with the updated barrels like on a MSA but made for the Carter guitars (more on those later). So if you folks have any other ideas on this please let me know.

3) As for the pedals, We were going to try to use Legrande pedals but I only have 2 of them in stock. Same with some Mullen pedals. But we have plenty of MSA pedals in stock so I will be making the pedal bar from scratch and we will use those pedals.

Before we get started I personally would like to thank a few people. My apologies if I forget anyone. That was not my intention.

Fellow forum members
Al Brisco... parts stock
Winston... Derby end plates
Tony Glassman... Emmons Changer and a Ton of Advice, fun conversation and experience.
Dave Diehi... Who came through in a pinch and saved my bacon and that I owe coffee to now.
Andy Depaule... Who doesn't realize it but through our conversations and following his build threads have helped me immensely.
Barry Coker... Kept us supplied while we worked on getting this all together.
John Lacey... His years of experience advice and long time friendship. He is my turn to guy when it comes to playing and understanding the steel guitar and the guitarists needs/wants.
Gentleman on eBay... selling Derby Parts I don't think he's a forum member.

Next step is to see what wood we will be using and get that ordered and milled...To Be Continued
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Terry Winter · From: Saskatchewan, Canada

Wayne. Nice post and I really thank you for doing what your doing (out west)

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I’m anxiously awaiting to watch this story on unfold……👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Hi Wayne,
#3 will be something nice to see.
The first two came out so nice that I'd put a few $$$ of this one being the best yet!
Very Happy

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Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Well just a little update here. I have secured a deal on some more Derby parts. So we will be moving forward at this time with a D-10 build instead of just a SD-10. Basically we will own a Dergrande Shocked

LOL. Also I have been in contact with Becky Wilde and if all goes well I will be enjoying 2x XLR16s installed on this guitar... anyways once I have some more information I will update you folks again
thanks
Wayne
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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Well here is an update for you folks. We now have 99% of everything we need for a D-10 Dergrande Smile

build.
The only things that I am waiting on is 8 Derby pedals that I also found on EBay. I was going to use the polished MSA pedals I have but those are starting to get a little scarce. Plus the Derby pedals are basically Legrande pedals. So I can polish them up and it's all good.
The second thing are the return springs. I could not find anymore so I have made arrangements to tool up here so we will be able to build our own springs and also springs for customers.

We have received the Bill Lawrence LXR-16 pickups from Becky Wilde and of coarse they are wonderful.

All the wood has been milled and received.

All the extrusions ie: necks, key heads, end plates,etc have arrived.

We will also be using the Grover mini 210's for this build as they are quite smooth to operate and the key heads seamed to be milled for them as well.

So I guess the first thing I will probably have to do when we get started is make a see through jig out of plexy glass so I get the exact length I need to be in scale, and see where the original screws will have to go... more coming soon
Thanks
Wayne
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Carl Mayer · From: Richmond, Virginia, USA

Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Thanks for the input Carl ...however that style of return spring is used on guitars like ZB etc. The springs we will be manufacturing for this build are turned on a lathe over a mandrel and are used on the likes of Emmon's, fessenden etc.
But I do thank you for taking the time to help with your thought on the matter...and I have put those inserts in my cart on that site and will look into making them for
customers that need that type of return spring.
Thanks
Wayne
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Carl Mayer · From: Richmond, Virginia, USA

No problem, I just didn’t catch you were going for an exact match. Out of curiosity do you undersize the mandrel to account for spring back or just form the whole thing w/ soft wire and heat treat after? Wouldn’t mind a couple pics of that setup once you have it up and running. Seeing the clever manufacturing setups y’all come up with is just as interesting as the actual instrument to me.

Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

According to what we (Lori and I) researched it would be over a smaller size mandrel. She has found me a couple of calculators for this specific equation. I can post a picture of the mandrel for you once I work out the math and manufacture it. However there are a couple of projects I have to take care of first. Thank you for your interest.
Wayne
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www.outwestcountry.ca

John Hyland · From: South Australia

Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Sorry it has took so long to get an update on this thread . I have been swamped with work and new products we are designing and are still in the middle of manufacturing. I had also been commissioned to completely rebuild and old Sho-bud for a customer. Which took a lot of time 392 hrs to be exact. Whoa!

The guitar is a new guitar mechanically and plays fantastic.

I have also been introducing myself to other customers and doing some modifications and such to there guitars.
So with that all said here is and update.
Since I last posted to this thread there have been a lot of updates.
1) I have chosen to not use the old MSA pedals that I have in stock as a lot of other folks may end up needing them down the road. I have contacted that gentleman on Ebay again and purchased 8 Derby pedals from him and will of coarse be using those.
2) I have a lot of Mullen PRE RP bell cranks/rod pullers in stock we have decided to use those on this guitar.(These came from Al Brisco's stock)
NOTE; We would never manufacture any part for a Mullen or any other guitar for that matter that is still in production as that would infringe on there livelihood.

3) As for holding the pull rods on the bell cranks we have decided to use a spring system that a lot of people have used in the past. and since we are in the middle of designing and building these and other springs I think this would be a great fit.

4) As for paint.....Lori and I were talking as we have purchased a parts lot from a fellow forum member and will probably be building a really cool SD-10 as well later this year. So our thoughts are of coarse It has to be lacquer, but the colors we are looking at are a 3 color sunburst and a black to candy apple blue burst. These are just preliminary thoughts and for anybody that has followed my first 2 builds you know this could go south
real fast. Laughing

I will keep you updated on this.
5) We have been in touch with Gary Sill and have purchased a set of legs that we would need for one of the guitars that we are building.
6) We will also be going back to Becky Wilde to get a couple more XLR-16s for the other guitar
7) We will be contacting the mill in Ontario to have them mill the wood for the 2nd guitar...once we decide what wood...quilted or birdseye Very Happy

Thanks
Wayne
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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

I now have a few more updates for you now.
1) There will be now 2 builds going to happen. I will start the second thread once that guitar has been started. I will say That we bought the MCI parts form Johnny Boyd he had for sale and was very accommodating. So thank you John for helping me out and we will probably use your services again.

Ok the next update is that we will be using Outwest made return springs. We will be going with the Fessenden style as I seam to like it a little better as the screw threads follow more in the spring than the Emmon's one. Not that the Emmon's one doesn't work, as we all know it does. I just like the design better, plus they are both the same diameter of spring.

The new original Fessenden ones I have I'll put on the web site for sale. That way these will all be uniform. The mirror style wire is unavailable anywhere at the moment (manufacture supply issues) however we have the satin finish wire and it polishes up really nice. So that's what we will be using. I don't know if you can tell in the picture but here it is.

Also we are always on the look out for new or really cool ideas. I got a chance to work on my first Sho-Pro a little while back. This guitar is owned by a fellow forum member Larry Ball. It is A Blonde and purple SD-10. I have to say that WOW they sure have come a long way from the original Sho-Bud days. I was thoroughly impressed with some of the new ideas incorporated into this guitar. Plus the fit and finish was next step. So looking at this build we are currently doing. I will be modifying a couple of ideas to fit into this build. Sho-Pro uses a really nice designed pedal bar system. I can't use anything close to this as there pedal rack is extruded and uses clamping pressure to hold the pedals in place. We are going to start with the basic MSA/Carter type pedal bar with leg clamp wings.

Then i'll bring over a new pedal holder design. The idea is from the Sho-Pro I saw but different to accommodate the old style pedal bar. So instead of the pinned pedal brackets I'll design new ones to except the Derby pedals. We will have to screw them to the pedal bar like the MCI was. Here is what Sho-Pro use.

NOTE; I will not copy anything from any in production guitar. That would just be wrong.

I just like the way the cross shaft connects with the pedals and the mounting brackets.
On another note all of our tints have arrived and we are just waiting on the small metal flake to try to reproduce candy color Very Happy

. Then we can start testing the color finishes to work up a formula for the specific color we want.

I also had some left over Maple from building the last matching seat for Rare Wood 2.0 steel guitar

So we will be building another matching seat with the paint scheme of that guitar whether it is the sun burst or the black to blue burst...thanks for following along.
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www.outwestcountry.ca

Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Well i thought I would put another little update here.
here is the pedals for this build. We will be using the Derby/Emmons style pedals with a modified connection to the pedal bar that has already been discussed.

We also had the wood develop a flaw in the maple so it has been re ordered and should be here very soon.
Lori and I as well came up with another possible paint scheme. saffire/candy blue pearl burst to black. We will be testing this out as well and if it works we may also have a red to black burst for the future SD-10 build
thanks
wayne
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www.outwestcountry.ca

Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Sorry I have been a little slow on the steel guitar build updates due to trying to get things manufactured. (I have a huge seat run to do.) And of course projects that need my attention and oh ya and I blew up my compressor motor Rolling Eyes

So I'm waiting for that to arrive. Should be here on Monday or Tuesday. So with that all said I'll continue. I've been giving some thought to how I would be able to install a key head, aluminum neck and changer. My dilemma is that most manufactures have a jig for drilling to a line up screw mounting holes. I don't have that information. Which this give a few issues.
1) screw hole alignment
2) scale, Where to place the key head and changer to have a perfect 24" or on this build a 24.25" scale
3) straightness an alignment of the different components.
Well I think I came up with a solution for these engineering problems. I am going to make a transparent jig from plexi glass for each neck. That way I can see everything I'm doing and it will then act as a template for mounting the key head, neck, and changer. I have a broken plexi door I made for our old Bobcat we use here. The wind caught it and it snapped so I had to replace it.

So it's just been sitting around...I might as well put it to use right Smile

Cut into the strip sizes i need and now I am ready for the next step....Math Whoa!

Stay tuned...
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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

I starting work on the changers to be able to place them on the jig where I would need them. Unfortunately, I ran into a bit of a snag. The Emmon's Legrande changer is great,

However the Derby changer has some issues. If I could find a another Legrande changer in good shape I would use that instead, But I'll probably just use what I have available.
The first issue is the main changer cross shaft is extremely tight.

If you ever have to change/repair a finger you could not without damage to the changer end plate. I will have to touch that socket to loosen it up just a little to be usable.
The second issues is that the tail piece was not drilled correctly. It is causing the one changer end piece to be at an angle and it has to much spacing on the fingers because of this. I have marked where the mounting screws should have been with a small black sharpie.

I do have another tail piece coming. However I would like the changers to look identical. So I will machine the Derby side plates to look exactly like the Emmon's side plates. I will also pick up some 1 inch square stock and machine down two new separate tail pieces. One for each changer so they match. The Emmon's tail piece though the same, mounts differently to the side plates of it's changer.
Slow and Steady...
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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Well I am finally back on this build. I am all caught up for now. (insert laughter here Laughing

). The tail piece for the Derby changer did come in, however it has the same problems as the original one that came with it and won't work or mount properly. So I think I'll just machine my own tail piece to match the Emmons Legrande tail piece anyways.

Now I'm ready to dimple and drill and tap the hole for the stops and the mounting.
Also the side pieces are extremely tight on the changer cross shaft and that could be problematic if you ever needed to do any changer work. As well I need to machine the side pieces to match the Emmon's changers looks so I have identical looking necks However, after looking at both changers i will be able to get close but still a noticeable difference as there will be not enough material left do match it perfectly due to factory drilling/machining. So I guess I'll do the best I can...

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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Well Except for the polishing I got it done. I had to invent a couple new tools. I took an old # drill bit for each size hole. That way they would not move or damage the threads, I reversed them then machined a point on them and then they became a punch for the new tail piece once matched up with the Legrande tail piece.

clamped them together and dimpled them. after that I pilot drilled the holes.

Then the countersink holes and finished it off with a 1/4" endmill. So I now have a matching tail piece.

Stay Tuned...Possibility of another really cool left turn coming on this build
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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Well as I mentioned in my last post I thought this build might take a huge left turn....and it did. However I am back on track now. For those of you that read this post on a possible left turn. Here is a explanation of what has happened in the last couple of days.

I have been searching for a very nice MCI D-10 for years. I have had a few over the years and I had one I restored from this...

To this

I have found a few of them for sale here and there and all were good candidates for a restore. I even found one that I really liked ...

However for one reason or another I could not get that deal completed.
So with the help of some forum friends and colleges on this forum. I have resided myself to building my own version of a MCI guitar. So now I'm on my search for parts I could use, and thanks to these fine folks I have found what I need.
I wish to Thank
Johnny Boyd; for MCI original parts. Changer, neck, key head rods, shafts, levers etc.
Mike Preuss for MCI original parts neck, changer, key head and cross shafts etc;
Michael Yahl Carter end plates, and changer finger stoppers.
Gary Sill for a New set of pedal steel guitar legs.
Becky Wilde for 2 New XLR-16 pickups

All the parts that I had bought have arrived, and I got to study them/look them over for a bit. I have found that the MCI's have had a few inconsistency in there parts design. Maybe between production dates, updates on design itself, or maybe even different places of manufacture. Waco to Arlington I don't know. Maybe one of these might even be from a EMCI. The necks are slightly different in shape. The changer had a different way to insert into the neck to house the pickup, so it is also designed differently as well.

So I think these parts would be better suited to a SD-10s. That way the differences won't be so noticeable. So with that said we are going to go ahead with the Legrande, Derby combination D-10 from this point forward. Well folks I wouldn't have known this if I didn't try right? So moving onward...
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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Just updated last post
thanks
wayne
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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Hi Folks I just wanted to say that I have not forgot about this post. I just got side tracked with Loris truck as it popped a hole and I needed to rebuild her engine before winter hits and out here in the sticks we do need our trucks. I am currently about 70% through it and then we will be back at this build and we have some really cool surprises in store for you. What I can tell you that a lot has happened since the last post. There is going to be three new builds instead of just one. All unique one of a kind (I Hope) LOL steel guitars. There is going to be one D-10 and two SD-10s. We will split the thread up so you can follow the progress of each guitar by itself. Thanks for your patients
Wayne
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