Lowering out of pitch after raise

Mats Raknerud · From: Norway

Hi. I have a problem with the 2nd and 4th string not reaching the correct pitch if i first activate the raise and then slowy activating the lowering.
If I’m fast and hammer in the lowering lever and equally fast letting go of the raise lever everything is fine.

What’s even weirder is that on the 4th string this only happens when I go from F to Eb. With the C-pedal there’s no problem. And on the 8th string there’s no problem going from F to Eb.

Here’s a video demonstrating the issue.

https://youtube.com/shorts/IZdiAcBg62w?si=5cQbSclcTuispgc0

Any good advice would be much appreciated. Smile

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Sounds like the strings aren’t moving freely across the nut rollers. First make sure the strings aren’t pulling at an angle. If they are, the rollers will not roll properly. They MUST be pulling in a straight line! (You will have to be quite careful and make sure they are wound properly on the tuning keys to accomplish this.). Second, loosen the strings one by one and lift them off the rollers to make sure the rollers are turning freely. Then add a small drop of oil to each roller where it turns on the axle, then reseat the string on the roller and tune it up to pitch.

You should also lightly oil the changer every year or two with a high grade oil, like gun oil or sewing machine oil.

Mats Raknerud · From: Norway

Roller nut is moving freely and strings are in a straight line. Especially the 4th string.

And if l look underneath the guitar while doing this, I can see that the raise finger isn’t returning properly when sliding slowly from F to Eb.

Allen Merrell · From: Georgia, USA

I had a similar problem with my ShoBud a couple years ago and was able to cure it by adjusting the return spring tension. Did not take much at all.
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72 ShoBud 6153 D10, Encore, Nashville 112, Boss Katana, Spark 40, Quilter TT12, GT001, ProFex II,Jackson Pitch changer (Love this bender)

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Return springs and Nut rollers are the first thing to check, and may solve the problem.
If the guitar has some age on it, May be dried out lube in the changer causing the problem.
If the changer is the cause of this problem, Some flushing and oiling may cure the problem. If not Changer may have to be removed, Cleaned and lubed.
Good Luck in finding the cause and fixing the problem, Happy Steelin.

Mats Raknerud · From: Norway

I’ve tried to loosen the return spring a lttle, but then the lowering finger starts activating when a raise is activated. And if I tighten the return spring the problem only gets worse.

Allen Merrell · From: Georgia, USA

What steel do you have? It kind of sounds like something may possibly be binding or worn causing it to not move freely when pressure is applied. There's an excellent video by Mickey Adams on the lube and setup of a steel which may be of help. Do a search for it here, I hope someone here may be able to drop you a link to it.
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72 ShoBud 6153 D10, Encore, Nashville 112, Boss Katana, Spark 40, Quilter TT12, GT001, ProFex II,Jackson Pitch changer (Love this bender)

Mats Raknerud · From: Norway

It’s an 84 zum.
I’ll search around for that video. Thank you. Smile

But it’s omly 6 months since I took the changer apart and cleaned it. And everythinh is rodded after the chart I got from Bruce Zumsteg.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

The 1983 Zum I have been rebuilding has adjustable compensator springs inside drilled pockets on the bar that the fingers return to. These in combination with return springs and pull helper springs have required a lot of attention as I set this one up. I don't know enough about Bruce's intentions with these extra compensators so have simply backed them all off to not interfere with the rest of the mechanics. I suspect this may be part of your problem as it sounds similar to issues I have encountered.

Mats Raknerud · From: Norway

Yup. I have the same return compensators as you describe. And I love them. Smile

But I backed those off to see if the return compensators was the problem, but it’s not.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

It's a puzzlement that I am sussing out as well. I don't believe it is the changer, if I figure it out conclusively I'll post it here, going to look at the nut some more.

Allen Merrell · From: Georgia, USA

How was it working before you took it apart and cleaned it? Another thing to check is there a little bit of slack in the rods with no pedals or levers engaged? By slack I mean can you feel a slight amount of free travel between the adjusting nut and fingers. Not touching but free.
_________________
72 ShoBud 6153 D10, Encore, Nashville 112, Boss Katana, Spark 40, Quilter TT12, GT001, ProFex II,Jackson Pitch changer (Love this bender)

Mats Raknerud · From: Norway

Found the problem!
Some of the cross shafts didn’t move 100% freely.
This is probably because of humidity. Alltough I have a humidifier going the whole winter. And it reads 40% humidity. I’ve had stuck cross shafts in the winter before. And that was before I got the humidifier. Seems like my guitar isn’t loving the Norwegian winter. 😅

Any way. I took off the front plate and gave the stuck cross shafts a little knock with a hammer. Seems like that re-fitted the «thingy» the cross shaft is fitted in on the other end. This gave it a millimeter of room. This combined with a little oil (that was impossible to get in there before it had some slack) did the trick.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Excellent that find, it's important to have a wee bit of slack in the cross-shafts, especially in climates that might cause wood to swell. Fortunately Bruce made certain his cross-shafts were not too long thus leaving room for adjustment.

Mats Raknerud · From: Norway

I should also add that I had to back off the raise helper spring on the 4th string one notch. After I oiled the changer the raise was moving more freely, and the raise helper spring was too tight and was messing with the lowering of the same string.
Quite a balancing act. 🙃

Allen Merrell · From: Georgia, USA

Good job Mats.. Now you can get to enjoying your playing. Your problem has been a learning experience for you and me too.😀
_________________
72 ShoBud 6153 D10, Encore, Nashville 112, Boss Katana, Spark 40, Quilter TT12, GT001, ProFex II,Jackson Pitch changer (Love this bender)

Mats Raknerud · From: Norway

Thank you.

I’m getting closer to knowing how to pick this guitar apart and back together every time something is wrong. 😅

There’s still some things I just can’t wrap my head around though. Like why the return springs whould have an impact on how far the string would lower before the raise finger is activated at the same time. Well, that’s for a different thread.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Allen Merrell · From: Georgia, USA

I feel bad about this I knew that when having issues like this is to check freedom of movement of everything and I went for the changer instead of starting where the movement starts and going from their. Pedals & levers, cross shafts, bell crank alignment, pull rods then to the changer. I knew this but did not follow the chain of command. I want make this mistake again.
_________________
72 ShoBud 6153 D10, Encore, Nashville 112, Boss Katana, Spark 40, Quilter TT12, GT001, ProFex II,Jackson Pitch changer (Love this bender)

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