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Topic: Third string Gauge .011 vs .015. |
Gerald Keller
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 5:07 pm |
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Worn out subject I realize after searching Forum BUT, I have enough strings to last my lifetime due to buying sets to get the 3rd string .011. My question is, can I substitute a .015 without problem and a noticeable difference. Thanks.
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Justice " The Judge"
Sho-Bud LDG
Desert Rose
Speedy West
Show Pro
Other Expensive "Stuff"
Last edited by Gerald Keller on 28 Aug 2023 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 5:14 pm
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| 11.5 is a good compromise between 11 and 12. You might not even have to retune as there is some variance with labeled string diameter. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 5:21 pm
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| A lotta players have gone to a .012 (me too) as that's about the largest gauge that will work. The .0115 is an okay alternative, but it's just harder to find unless you order them. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 5:32 pm
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| Well his post is .015 or 15 thousands. If that's what was intended then no. But as the above members said the .012 or .0115 is good. |
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Gerald Keller
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 5:48 pm
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If not a .015 and if a .012 works, which I don't have, will a .013 be close enough. Thanks
_________________
Justice " The Judge"
Sho-Bud LDG
Desert Rose
Speedy West
Show Pro
Other Expensive "Stuff" |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 6:08 pm
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| My opinion is no. I believe this has been tried and failed to take the tension. Plus balance problems. I usually buy single. 011 by the dozen. You can get them shipped free from some venders. I get sets from musicians friend in the Rogue brand. I also buy from Just Strings in the bulk package but shipping is charged unless you buy quite a bit. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 7:15 pm
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A 013 or 015 will snap in a heartbeat when you step on that B pedal.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 7:24 pm
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If you truly mean .015 and not .0115, you better wear a welders mask as a .015 would probably break before it even got to pitch (G#). I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that guitar when That string exploded.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 7:27 pm
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| Quote: |
| Post subject: Third string Gauge .011 vs .015. |
To the original poster - surely, you mean a 0.0115, not 0.015. Your 5 is in the wrong decimal position. Although not exactly standard, 0.0115 is not an unusual gauge for 3rd string G#4. The possible choices are
0.0110 (standard 0.011, which is what most PSG sets come with)
0.0115
0.0120 (0.012)
The approximate tensions for a typical 24.25" scale pedal steel tuned to G# and then stretched to A are
| Code: |
Gauge Tension at G#4 Tension at A4
0.0110 31 pounds 35 pounds
0.0115 34 pounds 38 pounds
0.0120 37 pounds 41 pounds
0.0130 43 pounds 49 pounds
0.0140 50 pounds 56 pounds
0.0150 57 pounds 65 pounds
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Source: Stringjoy Tension Calculator - https://tension.stringjoy.com/ - I realize that string material and other factors can influence this tension somewhat, but this calculator gives a pretty accurate estimate of the actual tension of a plain steel string.
I think 0.012 at around 40 pounds for A4 is pushing it, but some people make it work. I have tuned 23-25" scale length slide guitars to Open A = A E A C# E A and it is a very difficult proposition for anything above a 24" scale, regardless of the top string gauge. I have broken a lot of strings trying to tune Strats up to Open A. I am confident that 0.150 would snap long before it got up to A4. And even if it didn't snap, the tension would be ridiculous. To give an idea of the scale of things, a typical electric guitar string has a tension of less than 20 pounds. For example, a .010 gauge string on a 24.75" scale Les Paul is about 17 pounds, and on a 25.5" Strat is about 18 pounds. Pedal steel strings are under higher tension. 35 pounds for a 0.011 3rd string is typical - most strings have significantly lower tension than this - and a lot of people do snap .011 3rd strings.
We talk about it frequently here. But 60+ pounds is absurd.
Of course, you can try a .015. I think Richard's idea of a welder's mask is good. And you're putting a helluvalotta tension on the finger. I wouldn't do it myself. Is this just to use some .015 strings you have and avoid buying some of the correct gauges? Penny-wise and pound-foolish, IMO. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 28 Aug 2023 9:10 pm
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Not sure what you're asking. I thought you meant .0115, but now I don't know.
As to a .013 for a third: I bought an older Zum several years ago and, just for fun, I used a gauge to measure all the string diameters before I changed them.
To my surprise, it had a black balled D'Addario 13 ga. string on the 3rd. I double and triple checked it but it was def. a 13.
I normally use a .012 gauge, but curious if it would stand another one, I replaced it with another 0.13 gauge. Talk about taut, yeah, it was scary but it didn't break.
I played that guitar for 5 yrs. or more and always used a 13 at the 3rd spot. I was nervous about it for a while, but got used to it and never had a problem with unusual breakage.
There is another player here that also used a 13 on a Zum successfully, but I don't know of any others.
I posted it about it here on the froum somewhere.
I'd consider this a phenomenon and would be curious to know what that actual string tension was tuned up to A with a pedal. [Edit: Overlooked the chart above]
I've never tried it since with any other guitar, but since it was already in use on that Zum, I just kept on using it just out of stubborness and curiosity, besides I liked the fatter tone.
I would not recommend you try it though. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 6:59 am
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I get a fuller, richer tone out of a .012 string.
Erv  |
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 7:09 am
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| Gerald Keller wrote: |
I have enough strings to last my lifetime due to buying sets to get the 3rd string .011. My question is, can I substitute a .015 without problem and a noticeable difference.....
If not a .015 and if a .012 works, which I don't have, will a .013 be close enough. Thanks |
It sounds like you've been stealing replacement 3rd strings from full sets, and now have a bunch of partial sets hanging around. Here's a suggestion: Instead of trying to substitute questionable gauges for your 3rd string (and making the necessary adjustments to your pulls) why not buy some single .011's or .012's to complete the sets you cannibalized?
_________________
1980 MSA Vintage XL S-10, 1975 Session 400
1972 Dobro model 66s
Derby SD-10
Tom McDonough |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 1:10 pm
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| Exactly what I was trying to say. Plus having the extra smaller strings for the occasional breaks. I often change 3,5,6 if I play a lot and don't have time to change the full set. Thereby avoiding a broken string at practice or gig. |
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Larry Baker
From:
Columbia, Mo. U.S.A.
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 2:40 pm
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I use the .o12 on string 3. I order custom sets from
Live Steel Strings. they will build your set the way you want them, and the strings are great.
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Mullen G2 SD10 3 & 5 The Eagle
NV112 amp===Earnie Ball V.P. |
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Gerald Keller
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 2:45 pm Third String Guage
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Rather than buy another complete set or wait for shipment, I was trying to use what I had. Went to Guitar Center here in Phoenix and bought out their bulk inventory of .011 and .012 or a total of 10. Thanks for everyone’s comments.
_________________
Justice " The Judge"
Sho-Bud LDG
Desert Rose
Speedy West
Show Pro
Other Expensive "Stuff" |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2023 6:58 am
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So is it the consensus that 10s sound thinner but are more durable. As you increase the diameter of the string it becomes more prone to snapping and sounds fuller?
I haven't had any strings pop for years but lately I have been breaking my SIT 11s more.
I change the 3rd string every 3 or 4 gigs.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes
Last edited by Ken Metcalf on 5 Sep 2023 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jack Hargraves
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2023 8:45 am
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I've been using SIT strings for years. I play a GFI Expo.
The 11 ga has never caused me any problems.
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GFI Expo SD10, Nashville 112, Steelers choice Pak-a- seat, Carter vol. pedal, Stage one vol. pedal, Peavey Deltafex. Goodrich volume pedal. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 5 Sep 2023 9:16 am
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I have a long-scale Excel (25½") and getting a .011" 3rd string up to pitch is a test of nerves, and strings!
As long as I stick to GHS which is the original fitment and if I take extreme care installing it, once on and working it lasts for ages. (Other brands obtainable in the UK snap before they get to G#, never mind the B pedal.) The Excel changer is very kind to strings and once fitted successfully the 3rd string eventually gets tired and tinny but doesn't break.
I am tempted to go for an easy life with a .0105 but I fear it would lack power.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 6 Sep 2023 12:04 am
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always an interesting , valid, discussion. I keep the worlds supply of 11's on hand and have a few .0115's, (not 015's , thats a 15 ) I 've never used a 12.
11's have been reliable for any of the Steels I've owned and played thru the years, Emmons, Sho Buds, Carters etc...BUT- like a few here, when I was busy, I never went past 2 weeks before changing both 3 + 5. If I came off a 3 gig weekend, I changed both before the next week. I don't recall breaking a 3rd string on a gig for well over a decade, maybe longer when I was active, meaning playing gigs weekly.
Trial and error, see what works for you , there are no rules and also NO HOLY GRAIL 3rd string . Its the nature of the beast.
BEST
tp
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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