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Topic: D13 resources? |
Bill McCloskey
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Posted 22 Jul 2023 5:08 pm |
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I just traded for a Williams 12 string setup for Johnny's D13. I know Johnny has a number of videos on line including the tutorial in Dallas and I'll be digging in to those. But I wonder if anyone has mapped out pedal and lever combinations, grips, etc. The E9 part is pretty straightforward, the usual changes are there. But I'm less familiar with C6, so having some trouble mapping C6 to the D13 neck.
I've started spreadsheeting out the main pedal and lever moves, but figured I'd check to make sure I'm not reinventing the wheel. Any work anyone has done mapping out this copedence on a 8x5, love to know. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 22 Jul 2023 7:12 pm
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| I was hoping you'd put something together Greg. Thanks |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 24 Jul 2023 4:25 am
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Hi, Bill
Greg is certainly a great resource and has been exploring D13th for some time.
I, on the other hand and as you may recall, am still awaiting delivery of my new D13th Williams so I don't yet have any 'hands on' experience with the tuning.
However, it struck me at the time I first saw the concept, that a hybrid of both tunings (with the pitch being a good compromise; midway between C and E) was the cleverest 'universal' tuning yet designed. I still feel that way, even without a guitar to try it on!
It must be said, though, that I never felt the need for and D13th-specific materials; it's literally both necks in one (with the obvious difference that comes with that 'extra' string between the root and the 5th.
I started on C6th many years into my fifty-year steel guitar journey. I'm not a 'tab guy', but I have acquired quite a lot of well-written C6th instruction. Despite this, while I may have paid $20 for, say, a transcription of 'My Funny Valentine', I have never got past the first 4 to 6 measures. I tire quickly of 'playing by rote'. My ears take over. "I know this song, I know the changes: just play it!!!"
I have no E9 tab; I feel I have a good grasp of that tuning and it's full potential. I only got some C6 stuff to try and make up for the years I ignored it!
Your 'new' D13 guitar will feel very much like an E9th (except it's D9th) when using the left-side pedals. The brilliance of Johnny's idea is that all those '6th tuning voicings' can be found using pedals 4-7. The extra string I spoke of, while it may trip us up occasionally, provides a missing interval that surely facilitates single-note playing (it's vital for making pedals 4-7 effective, too).
I will finish this laboriously long response by admitting that, now I'm in my 80th year, I now feel somewhat daunted at the prospect of going to 12 strings from a D10. Fourteen months ago (when I ordered the Williams), I was gung-ho about the idea. Now? I'm a bit intimidated, but that depends on which side of the bed I get out of on any given day. 
I really hope I hear from Bill Rudolph soon..... 
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 24 Jul 2023 5:57 am
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I have begun spread sheeting out the differences. I used Sidekick, the Pedal Steel App, and I put Straight C6 on one IPAD and the D13 on another and I've been mapping out the differences and similarities in voicing. It isn't quite as simple as both tunings being on both necks. The RKR is engaged for much of the lower C6 voicings and while you can get most of the E9th voicings, the tuning lends itself to new and better voicings of some of those chords.
Since I'm less experienced on E9 and C6 than you Roger, I'm finding it better to think of it as its own tuning rather than a hybrid of two others. And I've begun to map out all pedal and lever combinations and I can't wait to hear them in action. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 24 Jul 2023 6:06 am
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Good for you, Bill: that's how you should approach it - as a single tuning.
My years on a D10 will be a disadvantage in that respect.
And yes: RKR is the magic knee-lever on Johnny's tuning.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 24 Jul 2023 7:01 am
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| Don't know if you are experienced with Universal tunings Roger but maybe someone has the answer. What is the difference between engaging RKR for C6 voicings on the D13 tuning compared to holding a lever in Universal tunings for the C6 voicings. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 24 Jul 2023 7:40 am
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No I'm not, Bill. I never wanted to have to hold a KL to get that 9th string D.
In answer to your question, I have yet to find out just how much the RKR must be engaged for things to reveal themselves. It's hard to make any pronouncements without the tuning right in front of me. I've lost count of the hours (mostly on dialysis!) that I've spent trying to explore the tuning in theory.
It's not impossible that my forthcoming D13th guitar might eventually become a fully-loaded Ext E9, but there's a long way to go before I even consider that option.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2023 9:02 am
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You do not have to hold the RKR for all C6 voicings. Only needed when you want the lower strings to mimic certain C6 riffs. For example it's not needed on any of the strings at all for pedal 5 but it's needed for pedal 6. This becomes apparent after just a few hours of actual playing time!
This tuning does much more than just emulate the E9 and C6 tunings. It adds in some really cool Maurice Anderson and Curly Chalker changes while also extending the range of the E9 tuning for some full sounding rhythm vamps. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 24 Jul 2023 9:27 am
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Thanks, Greg.
I was pretty sure that would be the case but it's good to have it confirmed. There's nothing like having some actual seat-time to explore a new tuning properly.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 25 Jul 2023 5:04 am
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A quick PS:
I had a call from Bill Rudolph yesterday while I was on dialysis - my guitar just needs rodding and I could have it in a week!
I now have to face up to a final 'written in stone' setup. My dilemma is that I want P4 (raising 12 to E, lowering 6 to G) at the 'P1' position but conventional wisdom says 'No'.
My guitar, my decision, I know; what's nagging at me is how great pedal 5 (on JC's setup) would be right next to my 'A pedal'.
Today I have to decide and get a final chart off to Bill; right now, he has sheaves of paper full of my amendments over the months.
I, too, am buried in paper here: correspondence with JC, Doug L. as well as prolific exchanges between myself and the late and much missed Bobby Lee.
More coffee!!!
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 25 Jul 2023 6:51 am
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| That is great news Roger, I know you've been waiting forever. Greg, thanks for the update. Should add not just Reece and Curley but Tom Morrell's D13 tuning is mostly there as well. I get mine tomorrow. Going to be interesting. I'm currently mapping out the chords which I'll post as a progress. |
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