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Topic: E Raises and Lowers on Right Knee |
Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 22 Oct 2006 12:19 pm |
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Learner seeking advice .....
I have a Pro-1 with E levers on right knee. I started learning on a Carter Starter with them on the left knee.
I have found it easy-ish to adapt, but it still feels a bit funny to me.
Before I start mucking around with it to change back, I'd be interested to know...
Do many of you have them on the right knee, and why? Are there advantages to this set-up?
Good luck to you all
Jeremy
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2006 12:29 pm
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| Do you use half stops on any of your knee levers? I find that half stops work better on the right knee. The E and F levers don't use half stops, so I like them on the left knee. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 22 Oct 2006 4:58 pm
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Jeremy,
Most are setup for Es on left knees, so if you sit in on another guitar, that's the way it will most likely be.
If you already are used to them on the left, I would put them there, it will feel more natural. Look in the tuneings link on the forum and you will see most use this setup.
Bill |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 22 Oct 2006 6:47 pm
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| I have been playing my E changes on the right knee..my first steel came that way, I never knew any better and never had any reason to change, also never found it to be any advantage or disadvantage. Sitting in can be an adventure but you adapt pretty quickly. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2006 7:49 pm
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| A lot of people (me included) prefer the E raises on the left knee left, E lowers on the right knee left. Two advantages: one, you can move smoothly from one to the other without flailing the same knee from side to side, and without a hitch in the middle of the bend; and two, you can hold the E lowers on your right knee while operating the A & B pedals alone or in combination, which is trickier when it's all on the same leg. (Of course one could make the same argument for putting the E raises on the right knee also, but I refer back to advantage one--and of the two, the lowers come into use more often--for me, anyway.) |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 22 Oct 2006 7:55 pm
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Some of us agree with Paul Franklin that there is an advantage to having the E raise and E lower on different knees. The E raise works well on the left knee next to the A pedal for that combination. If the E lower is on the other knee, you can go back and forth from E raise to E lower smoother.
Edit: Sorry for the redundancy. Brint and I posted the same idea at the same time.[This message was edited by David Doggett on 22 October 2006 at 08:57 PM.] |
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Papa Joe Pollick
From:
Swanton, Ohio
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Posted 22 Oct 2006 9:08 pm
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| What Brint and Dave said.PJ |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 12:01 am
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Thanks for your input, fellas - I hadn't thought of raises and lowers on each knee (one or the other).
I'll give that some serious thought.
Jeremy |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 1:00 am
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i've got the Es on both knees
left raises & right lowers
the E lower on RKL was initially, i believe, the Sho~Bud set up
since i started on an SB i kept that E lower on my Zums & the E raise on LKL |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 2:43 am
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Once you experience them on the right knee and thus avoid the dyslexic confusion of having them on the left knee, you'll further appreciate this post!! It also serves to keep you from sliding off of your Pak-a-seat when getting into a fast number.
Very relaxing and comfortable playing. I've tried it several ways: left, right, and one of each. I opted for the right!! 28 years and a-runnin'!!
PRR |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 4:52 am
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| Ditto to the right lowering and the left raising. I had my first two guitars this way and used it for 35 years. My present guitar that I have had for 3 years has both raise and lower on the left knee. It just doesn't work as well, as noted above. There is a time lapse when you go from the raise to the lower. With the changes on both knees, there is not rush or time lapse from lowering to raising. |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 6:04 am
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My first "real" guitar was a ShoBud S-12 which I got in the late 70's. Before that I had a couple of Fenders and one Blanton which didn't come with knee levers. The factory setup for the 'bud had the E lowers on RKL and the raises on LKL which I used for a while and it just didn't seem right for me. I shortly after changed the lowers to RKR and the raises to RKL which I still use today. When I went the UNI direction it was the best way. It freed the left leg up for use with all the pedals and three of the knee levers. In Jeff Newman's universal set up that's what he uses....JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 10:47 am
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I learned on an old Sho-Bud which had the E lower on the RKL (and no E raise) I realize there are good arguments for putting both changes on the left...but I just can't get used to the lowers anywhere but RKL. So I have the E raise on LKL and E lower on RKL.
One advantage is when I'm looking for that 6th sound by holding the E lower lever in. I get better leverage with my right leg, (because of the volume pedal) and my left leg is free to use the pedals.
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 12:31 pm
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Tommy Mc,
What are the good arguements for having both on the left knee?
(this is getting more interesting than I expected)
Jeremy[This message was edited by Jeremy Threlfall on 23 October 2006 at 02:48 PM.] [This message was edited by Jeremy Threlfall on 23 October 2006 at 02:49 PM.] |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 2:52 pm
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| I'm curious about that as well. I'm not being combative--I know everyone is different, and that's often what makes life (and steel) interesting. But I myself haven't been able to think of a positive reason for preferring both on the left knee. If I couldn't have them on separate knees, for the reasons I (and Tommy Mc) gave above, my second choice would be to have both on the right knee. So that they could both be used with any foot pedal moves without difficulty. Also, especially, but not only, if you were going to have more than two additional knee levers, you'd be able to combine all the others with either the E raises or lowers, which can be regarded as "basic" changes, and as proponents of both on the same knee often say, you'll never want both E raises and E lowers at the same time. [This message was edited by Brint Hannay on 23 October 2006 at 04:00 PM.] [This message was edited by Brint Hannay on 23 October 2006 at 04:09 PM.] |
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Mike Baldwin
From:
Watsonville, Ca. USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 3:01 pm
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| I have E lower & raise on the rightknee, my left ankle and knee are a little worn out so it makes things a lot more comfortable |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 3:13 pm
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| Amen to what Mike said as well: moving your ankle to one side and your knee to the other side is a contortion. I put up with it when doing E raises+B pedal for the reasons I said before. Alas, with only two knees we have to compromise somewhere! |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 4:30 pm
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I always thought Sho~Bud set them up that way because it was cheaper to make left-moving levers... two pieces... than right-moving levers, which require a reversing mechanism.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 24 Oct 2006 1:14 pm
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quote:
Tommy Mc,
What are the good arguements for having both on the left knee?
(this is getting more interesting than I expected) Jeremy
I don't think there are necessarily any limitations in changes you can make, but here are two reasons that I have heard for putting them both on the left:
1. Ergonomics....the A pedal and E-F raise are common combinations Your leg is rocked left when you hit the A pedal so having the E-F raise on LKL makes sense. Same arguement for the B pedal and E lower on the LKR.
2. I think both E changes on left are part of Carter's most requested set-up. It seems to me that it is heading closer to being standard like the A, B, and C pedals. As a practical matter, if you get used to it, you'll be able to play other folks guitars easier.
So those are the reasons I have used when I tried changing my levers around. But like I said, I keep coming back to the E lower on RKL. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 24 Oct 2006 1:19 pm
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| I think you will find that anyone who started out on a ShoBud will have their RKL lowering the E's ...and the musical advantages that Paul Franklin extols probably reinforce it as a good place to have it !! Suits me just fine. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2006 2:32 pm
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| Quote: |
| the A pedal and E-F raise are common combinations Your leg is rocked left when you hit the A pedal so having the E-F raise on LKL makes sense. Same arguement for the B pedal and E lower on the LKR. |
But A pedal and E lowers and B pedal and E raises, while perhaps less common, are very useful combinations too. And it's no more difficult to hit a right knee lever together with a pedal, say, B pedal and RKL, than it is to hit B pedal and LKR. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2006 4:40 pm
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| Quote: |
| I always thought Sho~Bud set them up that way because it was cheaper to make left-moving levers... two pieces... than right-moving levers, which require a reversing mechanism. |
I think so too. And back when steel guitars had only one knee lever, RKL was the easiest place to put it. And it would lower the E (8th string at least, and possibly the D#?). So, for anybody who started playing that way, it is a habit that is hard to break. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 24 Oct 2006 4:58 pm
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I've recently reverted to 3+2 on a Pro 1 with both knees on the right, and I'm raising my E's on the RKR. It feels good to me, especially when I want to roll off the A pedal in an augmented chord - going from a I to a IV. I don't have to hold my knee to the left while rolling off to the right on the A pedal. This is the same reason I can't handle lowering the E's on the LKR. It doesn't make sense to me, having my knee and ankle going in different directions. Making a 9th chord with the AB pedal down and LKR lowering the E's is something I could never get used to. It feels unnatural to me. But so many lower the E's on the LKR that it must be just as easy...I guess it's a matter of habit and preference.
Having said all this, I got another lever coming from Coop next week so I'll probably go back to the standard E raise on the LKL. It's a bit too radical for me to lower the 2nd and 9th strings on the LKL. But for now it's fun - and easy. I recorded 4 tunes on a session yesterday, and used the raise without hesitation. But I could never have the E's lowering anywhere but on the RKL. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 24 Oct 2006 9:12 pm
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| Quote: |
| What are the good arguements for having both on the left knee? |
The argument I have heard advanced most often - and also, IMO, the best argument I have heard for putting both E-F and E-Eb on the same knee - is that they are not used together. Combinatorially, this gives more practical knee lever options, given the same number of knee levers.
I started out with E-F and E-Eb on LKL and LKR, respectively. That was fine for S-10 or D-10, but when I started playing universal, I found the traditional uni argument for E-Eb on the right knee compelling. It is hard to move your left foot around 7 or 8 pedals when you're holding LKR in for long periods to make your E-Eb change for the B6 position. So I moved E-Eb to RKL. In general, I find it ergonomically more comfortable there, but also lost some of the lever combinations I used to have. I am considering two solutions. First, I could put an extra knee lever on my guitars - not a solution I'm crazy about. So I am seriously considering putting E-F on RKR as a trial. That would give me both the RKL E-Eb ergonomics plus both E raise and lower on one knee. I imagine there are disadvantages to this also, but I guess the only way I'll really know is to try it. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 5:01 pm
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My setup: E's lower-RKL; E's raised-RKR.
Big advantage havin those on the same knee, and the right knee, is that I can use either one with the 4 KL's on my left knee. Put those raise/lowers on separate knees, and you seriously reduce the number of possible combinations. Put them both on the left knee and most players generally only have two right KL's, so the combinations are cut in half.
It is also ergonomically easier to play A+B+E that way. And my body feels very balanced with almost all combo's I hit. I use B+F a fair amount (a II-7 chord), so the raise/lowers on the left knee make that a torturous affair.
You can get used to anything, of course, but I feel this is the best arrangement. And my double stop is on LKL, feels fine there, no problems.
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E9 lessons
Mullen D-12/Carter SD-10/Webb amp/Profex II+Lexicon MPX-110 OR Line 6 Pod XT
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