Nasty low overtone in high register, both guitars

David Sawyer · From: White Pine, Tennessee

Howdy y'all!

I am new to this whole pedal steel thing but am enjoying learning. Every once in a while my wife tells me I'm actually making pedal steel sounds.

So I just got a new GFI Expo, great guitar, and I am hearing some nasty low overtones above the 15th fret, mainly on 6, 5 4 and 3. The higher the frets/pitch the worse it gets.

I also have this issue on the ShoBud Maverick, and I think I had it on the Carter Starter I had for a short time. The Sho bud looks like it has the original single coil.

The pickup is a GFI III. I have gone straight to the amp with different chords, made sure I was blocking well, and nothing I do makes a difference.

Any suggestions on how to eliminate this? Anyone else have this issue?

thanks
Jeff

Paul Leoni · From: Mississippi, USA

This is most likely your amp. Steel guitars stress preamps/amps like nothing else. Hartley Peavey made a lot of money with those "Session" amps for a very good reason.

Fred · From: Amesbury, MA

On tube amps especially inadequate power supply filtering can cause a wolf tone like that. It also happens when it’s time for a cap job.
Fred

Silas Hamilton · From: Asheville, North Carolina

It could be the bar your using. Try a different bar and see if that helps.
_________________
push pulls n’ shobud amps

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Double check your technique. Be sure you are muting the strings well with your trailing fingers behind the bar.

When you play the octave or above, this becomes more critical.

Of course, you may have an electronics issue, but since you state your are a new player and it occurs on all your guitars, this is the first thing I would examine.

David Sawyer · From: White Pine, Tennessee

Thanks for all the quick responses. "Wolf" is close, though not like the wolf tones one gets on a 6 stringer with the pickups too high. It's very similar to the type of overtone I'm heard in the past through a nasty tube overdrive.

Paul, Fred, thanks for the notes on the amp. FYI I'm playing through a Headrush GigBoard into a Super Reverb model. I've adjusted input levels, the amp volume and tone settings and the overtone cues through regardless.

I go through a mixer into two Mackie SRM 550s here at the house. When I go straight to the mixer I still get the overtones. I also went straight (PSG, one cable, amp) to a Roland Cube 60 relic I have. Same overtones. Different cables, including a new one, no diff.

I'm convinced it's an artifact from the pickup/amp connection. When I do string 5 and 6 and hit the B pedal the overtone changes pitch.

I'm about to go direct through my XR18 into the studio monitor speaker and see what happens there. I'm not sure how more clean and direct I can get at least today w/o a nice Peavy Nashville 112 with the Fox Upgrade! or a Sarno Black Box, which I've already ordered.

Jerry thanks for the notes on blocking. I'm blocking as well as I can tell behind the bar, around the picks etc.

Silas Hamilton, thanks for the notes on the bar. I've tried this with the Schubb SP2, Dunlop 920 (bar of choice) and Dunlop 921. No difference.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

David,
It is a difference tone. Most likely caused by the pickup overloading the input of your amp. It is a ubiquitous issue with the steel. It’s also there with guitar but not as noticeable because the bending strings on the steel cause the low overtone to go the opposite direction of the bend. Attenuate your output or the input of the amp. If there are 2 inputs use the 2nd one.
_________________
Bob

David Sawyer · From: White Pine, Tennessee

Bob, that sounds about right On the Headrush I'll look at attenuating the input signal, but while it's showing a lot of green on the main input meter it's not showing overloading or peaking. I've dialed back the Input Gain but don't think that changed much.

I'll see what the Sarno Black Box does for me. I hear good things about it.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Turn your amp up and use less volume pedal, that will lower the chances of the overloading which causes intermodulation distortion (those "difference tones" Bob is speaking about). It may also help to lower the pickup in the guitar, as the strings deform downward more as you play up the neck, thus increasing the likelihood of a problem. If possible, try a string-to-pole spacing the thickness of three quarters (about 3/16"), and see if that helps the problem.

David Sawyer · From: White Pine, Tennessee

Donny, good advice on the pickup. In the meantime I adjusted the "Input Gain" on the Headrush patch setup and raised the output level to offset the volume loss. It's helped a lot.

Thanks everyone for the good advice. If I remember i'll post something about the Sarno Black Box when it comes in. Now on to my next question, for another thread, about the guitar not staying in tune.

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