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Topic: Bunch of (wanna-be) newb questions (long) |
Mark Kosmowski
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2020 10:22 pm |
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I'm learning to compose as a tech geek with pretty much no performance background. (But I have had a year of theory from a community college.) Currently I write with the mouse, but have been noodling on a 49 key controller. I also have an old Korg digital piano and have received spousal authorization to replace it after we move.
However, I'm not a keys player either and lately have been taken with fretless instruments like steel guitar and oud. So I'm thinking I'd enjoy noodling with something like a steel guitar more than replacing to different keys. I'm also considering a Linnstrument.
As far as genre, I see myself composing/producing electronica, probably with classical fusion elements. I'm also interested in microtonal music that doesn't stick to the 12 Western notes. Listening, I enjoy listening to almost anything. Back when I was young and dumb(er), it was actually guitar that changed my attitudes about classical music - specifically, a Christopher Parkening concert. I also like blues, especially blues rhythm and bass; and want to learn more about jazz. I've greatly enjoyed some of Cindy Cashdollar's solos.
If I decide to go with a steel guitar as my major instrument purchase, should I aim for a 2 neck model for a wide variety of music / dabbling on the bass end?
At what budget should I dabble with a lap steel instead of pedal?
Is there a preferred tuning for learning jazz? If jazz is an interest, does that mean more pedals / levers would be better than fewer? (Could I get by with an Encore or would I be better served with something else?)
Realistically, I'm thinking probably 2 - 3 months from now for a purchase and I would have a hard time justifying to myself more than about $2k USD. This will likely be a hobby. Will this get me into a two neck instrument (I'm willing to buy used)?
How much of a pain is it to adjust pitch shifts of levers and pedals? I can definitely see myself wanting to have access to quarter-tones and other non-Western tunings sometimes. For frequent adjustments are there particular brands / types of instruments that are better considered? |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 17 Jun 2020 3:44 am
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Wow, where to begin? First, you should realize that pedal steel has one of the most challenging learning curves of any instrument out there. I'm not saying it - many have stated as much here on the forum, people who play most of the instruments you would expect (fiddle, banjo, guitar, piano, harp, etc, plus many you would not expect. So do not think you will be tearing it up on the pedal steel 6 months in.
Jazz. It can be played on any of the three standard tunings (E9, C6, or Universal 12) but most find C6 a bit more suited to jazz on pedal steel. You could also check out Reese Anderson's (deceased) and Christopher Woitach, who play a variation of the C6, Bb6th - but with 12 strings, so can also work well for E9th style playing (although tuned down 1/2 step).
lap steel vs. pedal steel - two related, but different instruments. Listen to lots of Youtubes, and see which one gives you the sounds you want. But for extended chords, pedal steel is the ticket - all those pedals and knee levers give you the ability to change chords like play-do, but then, it takes years to learn how.
Micro-tonality - we all play micro-tonal music, whether we want to or not! That is one of the challenges of steel guitar - intonation. It's easy to adjust pedals and levers to give you whatever pitch you want, but I would think it would be easier to leave them in whatever setup you chose to learn, and use the bar for any micro-tonality.
Are you aware that there are musicians in various Indian traditions that play steel guitar (acoustic or non-pedal - have yet to see one playing pedal steel) but very much in the traditions of Indian music? Also check out Bruce Kaphan's pedal steel playing - both jazz and ambient stuff on the instrument. Plenty of others - just do some searching. This forum is a wealth of information.
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Adam Tracksler
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2020 7:28 am
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Agreed that pedal steel guitar is one of the most challenging instruments. I understood the chapman stick more 
You can play any style on any instrument, I firmly believe, but traditionally the C6 and universal tunings are more jazz oriented. I went with an extended E9, but that worked better for me.
I think of PSG as an inversion machine, and you cant throw enough theory at it. That said, you can play just fine knowing a little enough.
Non pedal is a mostly different animal, but has some crossover, you may want to start with that, you can also just buy a nut riser and start with an acoustic guitar tuned to G6.
Your budget should get you started well along your way for a pedal steel, or a pro level non pedal. The good thing is you should be able to get most of your money back if you hate it. |
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Franklin
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 17 Jun 2020 6:26 pm
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| If you are interested in composition, I would focus on keyboard. If you are going to spend the time and money to learn to play, a lot easier to play keyboard than pedal steel, you can play jazz, blues anything you want. If you are looking for microtonal music, buy a cheap lapsteel first and see if you like it. If you don’t read music, learn, especially if you want to compose. |
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Mark Kosmowski
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2020 6:50 pm
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| I was introduced to Daniel Lanois's work today and it is amazing. That is something like the electronica I'd like to do. I was just about convinced to go with a Linnstrument before finding his work. Maybe Linnstrument and lap steel. When it is closer to purchase time I'll check the used market. |
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Jon Voth
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2020 7:12 pm
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Another vote for:
To major in composition, please focus on and become proficient on the keyboard. As a lifelong musician with several music degrees, years of theory alongside composition majors-this is important.
And for me, learning the PSG is almost a FULL TIME hobby in which I am helped by my fundamentals of study in music.
Having said that it is cool that you are interested in the pedal steel (it's for more than country music!) and you could be THE GUY that composes interesting music using that as your medium.
From what I know about micro tones (embellishments of standard 12 tone lines over otherwise tonal music) then a lap steel may be a simpler way to accomplish it.
And-Chris Parkening is the man! |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 17 Jun 2020 7:17 pm
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I was unaware of the Linnstrument, so I looked it up.
jump to the 4 min mark or right before to hear Mr. Linn demonstrate the "pedal steel" function of this midi instrument. not great but there it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLh6G1aLuzo&list=RDoLh6G1aLuzo&index=1
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 17 Jun 2020 8:18 pm
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Lanois plays pedal steel too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzWymL5fq8
Alternate MIDI controllers (seaboard, hex layout keyboards etc) are interesting but when you start to look at vanilla DAW/hardware synth and Key MIDI controllers capabilities, you'll realize MIDI's 12TET oriented but there's lots of tricks: https://www.reddit.com/r/microtonal/. Look at Ableton, kontakt, bitwig and recent synths minilogue, Behringer D. https://producelikeapro.com/blog/getting-started-making-microtonal-music/
Just like everybody wants a first pedal steel D10, lots pedals/ knees but like Al Brisco says, you only need 2 pedals and 2 knees to keep you busy for a long time (he might have said 3 pedals, I'll have to ask him again
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Tal Herbsman
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2020 1:03 pm
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I've had a linnstrument since they came out. never thought I'd see it mentioned on this forum. Reason I bought it was b/c I fell in love with sneaky pete's playing on FBB #1 and played keyboard at the time.
linnstrument is a wonderful instrument. great fun. will let you do micro tonality better than PSG (you can have any number of whatever intervals tuned any way you want). I think its main strength is as an extended MIDI synth controller not so much a fretless instrument emulator. it begs for you to program new synth patches. it is a lousy PSG substitute like every other midi solution. I didn't get anywhere near PSG tonality with it.
my $0.02: play the PSG if you find the sound compelling. I think everyone here picks up the instrument because something about its voice resonates with our psyche. otherwise it's a nightmarish instrument that will demoralize you to no end. the physicality of the thing is awesome but overwhelming at times. unless you have to get that sound, you'd have a ton more fun with linnstrument or a million other things
IMHO as always. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 20 Jun 2020 9:20 am
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I do tons of work like you are describing on the Pedalsteel. Get in touch and we can do a video chat that may help you get a perspective. There are some basic things that are good to know.
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Bob |
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Mark Kosmowski
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2020 8:22 pm
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My overtime check showed up and I decided to purchase a Linnstrument. And finish building a lap steel. There's a plank of butternut in my garage that has taught me that surfacing with a handplane is hard work, but still yearns to grow up and become a lap steel.
We close on a house next week that my wife is willing to invest in, so I'll be running a subpanel to the detachsd garage for my tailed tools. We're buying a foreclosure with no mortgage, so I'll have time to organize the shop space too, instead of just throwing stuff in there to get it moved this time.
Thank you all for the advice! When I get moved, I'll ask about the build in the no-pedals forum. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Jun 2020 9:46 pm
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Don't confuse the PSG's ability to play microtones by accident with the precision of a purpose-designed midi controller. Steel guitar's an ear instrument and unless you can hear accurately the pitches you want you'd best go the electronic route.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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