LKR Hampers C6(B6) Pedal Usage

Dean Cavill · From: Toronto

Many apologies if this subject's been beaten to death already....

I've a pretty standard UNI setup...
- E's lower with RKR (less fatigue than RKL or LKR)
- Turnable Split on string 6, LKR and/or B pedal
- BooWah pedal 4, and primary C6(B6) pedals 5 and 6 (those frequently "rocked" between)

When practicing in C6(B6) mode, I frequently hold the LKR lever up, out of the way,
with a rubber band, 'cause the LKR gets in the way of reaching for pedals 5 and 6.
This of course is a no-no for playing situations where I frequently use
LKR + B-pedal for minor chords e.g. Amin at fret 5.

Other than "Deal with It" or, lower the E's with LKR instead...any suggestions ?

Many thanks in advance

------------------
Steelin' for the Dark Side
Carter-U12, a Bar, and some Finger Picks

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

My feeling is quite the contrary. I use LKR as many use P6 on C6. It lowers 8 from E to D. I let off the E to D# lever (RKL on my guitars) and simultaneously engage LKR, raising 4 to E and lowering 8 to D. This does several things, both to the E9 and B6 'side' of the tuning.
1. (E9) gives the D from string 9 of the 10 string tuning for many applications
2. (B6) gives what is usually on C6 pedal #6
3. (B6) reduces the number of 6th tuning pedals to 3, making the stretch when holding LKR shorter.
4. (B6) eliminates all of the combinations that usually require both feet on the pedals with the C6 tuning.
5. Allows the knee that lowers E's to D# to rest when the E to D lever is used.

All of my guitars have two LKR levers, staggered so that both may be used without folding one up. I can easily use the LKR that lowers E to D with all floor pedals and do often. With the A pedal, it gives a nice E13th chord; with the B pedal, it gives an E11 chord; with A+B and the E to D lever with the D as root you get a DMa7 or Ma9. And then there are the C6 applications by combining with the C#9 pedal to flat the 9th or the BMa9 pedal to give a mi9. There are other uses as well.

This approach transfers a pedal to a lever, so effectively 'robs' the player of a knee lever possibility, but it is well worth the sacrifice, IMHO.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Jim Hankins · From: Yuba City, California, USA

Hi Dean, I have a Carter U 12. Do you have to move your left knee horizontally to reach pedals 5&6? I would leave the lowering of the EEs on RKR if possible.

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

I play a Mullen U-12. It is more comfortable for me to lower the E's with my right knee moving in, or to the left.

I don't like the idea of folding the LKR lever up, out of the way. I shortened that lever by about an inch and a half. It's still long enough to use, but short enough to move my left leg under, on the way over to the B6 pedals.

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Mullen U-12, Evans FET-500, Fender Steel King

Dean Cavill · From: Toronto

Larry,
How'd I know you'd be the first one up to bat?.
Thanks for your help (again).
I'm gonna print this out, go home - have a stiff one, and ponder this for an hour or three.
Al Brisco will be lickin' his chops at your recommendations 'cause he knows I'm still
too green (read "chicken") to be doin' my own mods yet... LOL

Jim,
I got me some short stubby legs, so yeah, I gotta move my left knee horizontally to get to them suckers.
Generally this is not a problem when I'm just goin' for one pedal, but usually I'll
wanna plant on both Pedals 5 & 6 to be in a position to commence rocking.. that's when it gets dicey.

Lee,
CUT AN INCH AND A HALF OFF !
That phrase always makes me kinda squeamish, but yeah, I've considered that.
I'll have to let Larry's recommendations congeal in my grey matter before considering a "reduction" however.

Thanks Y'All

------------------
Steelin' for the Dark Side
Carter-U12, a Bar, and some Finger Picks

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Dean - I just noticed you play a Carter. I've seen Carter U-12's with the LKR lever moved forward enough to get your knee past it.

By the way. I just looked at my guitar. I think I only took an inch off that lever.

Lee

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

FWIW, The knee of my left leg doesn't move much at all to reach any of the pedals.
I think of my left knee as being a fixed position unit that lives between LKL and LKR, and my foot swings like a pendulum to be able to reach all pedals.
I have my pedal heights set up to match the arc that my foot makes as it swings from left to right over the pedals.

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 15 March 2006 at 10:19 AM.]

Dean Cavill · From: Toronto

Peter,

Can you actually rock between pedals
5 & 6, like you would between 1 & 2,
with your knee so far to the left ?
If so, you must have a rubber ankle ... lucky guy!

Jim Hankins · From: Yuba City, California, USA

Lee noted something that I confirmed on the Carter site that on (some?) U12s "LKR is placed away from the player toward the front so there is no obstruction" Is yours like that Dean?

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

In my case, for A&B, A is a little higher than B.
For P5 and P6, P6 is a little higher than P5.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I can't imagine designing a guitar so that any lever is not usable with any pedals -- especially not a universal guitar that moves LKR out of the way. The one lever I CAN'T use with the last few pedals is LKL. Eliminating LKR for use with the other pedals is just not an option in my approach to the tuning. I have Bb on LKV so that's a must. On my guitars I have LKR right over P4 and it is perfect for use with P4-7 or even 4-8. Engaged, it is almost over to P5. Granted, I do have rather long legs, but on most guitars the angle and/or position of the lever can be changed if needed. Many of the E9 knee levers are useful on B6 and are actually used by C6 players. G# to G is the same function as A to Ab on C6, for example.

I do favor putting the 'Franklin pedal' on P0 (furthest to left) on a universal guitar because it puts the B6 pedals too far to the right end of the guitar. These are all ergonomic issues that are dictated by an individual's body -- e.g., length of legs and what feels comfortable.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I agree with Larry. I can reach all pedal and lever combo's at any time.
You might call Carter to see if there is a logical solution that you may be overlooking.

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