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Topic: Show Pro - adding F# compensators? |
Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 13 Sep 2019 8:55 am |
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Anybody out there added compensators to their Show Pro, or have a Show Pro with them already installed?
I'm wondering if I need to add bell cranks to make it go or if I can add pulls to existing ones?
Thanks kindly! |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 14 Sep 2019 1:24 pm
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| Anyone? |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2019 3:29 pm
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| Why not reach out to Jeff ? He’s always answered the phone when I called. Best of luck with the project. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 14 Sep 2019 3:29 pm
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| Thanks, but he said he was too busy to help. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 14 Sep 2019 3:54 pm
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Marc, what exactly do you want to do? Are you talking about flattening string 7 slightly when you press the A or C pedal?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 14 Sep 2019 6:13 pm
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Ian, correct, though I’m planning on 1st string lower on A pedal, 7th on B.
Just need to know if I can piggyback on existing bellcranks or not?
Thanks!! |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2019 10:33 pm
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| Marc Jenkins wrote: |
| Just need to know if I can piggyback on existing bellcranks or not? |
That's highly doubtful... unless your A-pedal crossbar already has a bellcrank lined up with the 1st string and the B-pedal has a crank aligned with 7.
And I think it's asking for trouble to run a rod from the B-pedal's 6th string crank to the changer's 7th string hole since crooked rods have a tendency to snag at the hole causing tuning problems.
I can't think of a copedent or scenario where the needed bellcranks would already be on the guitar in the correct position, so you'll need to add them.
Also, you may need a second pair of bellcranks that sit around the halfway point to support the long rods. I'm not sure how your guitar handles the existing longer rods, so take a look at, say, the ones on the A-pedal to see how they are supported along their run and then do the same when adding the two compensator rods. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 14 Sep 2019 11:55 pm
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| Thanks Tucker, that makes sense for sure! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Sep 2019 12:47 am
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[no longer relevant]
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
Last edited by Ian Rae on 16 Sep 2019 1:09 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2019 6:13 am
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Zumsteel has a unique way of adding comps to the F#, without using bell cranks. It involves placing a small metal strip across the body. This may be more than you want to do, but you could adapt the principle
. It’s really simple in theory. It just involves a rod through the changer, connected to a fixed point under the body. It works well and is very simple.
Bruce may even have the parts and advice to do it if you call him. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 15 Sep 2019 7:25 am
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| Steve, I believe you are referring to Zum's return compensators not the tempering compensators Marc is asking about. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2019 8:31 am
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| Marc Jenkins wrote: |
Just need to know if I can piggyback on existing bellcranks or not?
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Of course you can. The pull rods don't have to be parallel.
Just don't bend them any more than necessary. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 15 Sep 2019 10:58 am
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| Thanks everyone, will give it a go! |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 15 Sep 2019 4:48 pm
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Marc put them on both the A and B pedals if your F#'s are going a bit flat when you activate both pedals!!
run a rod through the raise hole in your changer closest to the body (on strings 1 and/or 7) , and also put a bell crank on the target pedal(s)...and put the rod through the hole closest to the body.
Push both A and B then give the 1 and/or 7 a bump up if required ...
I usually colour the nylon tuners in Black to identify them more readily :-}
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 15 Sep 2019 8:28 pm
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| Paddy Long wrote: |
Marc put them on both the A and B pedals if your F#'s are going a bit flat when you activate both pedals!!
run a rod through the raise hole in your changer closest to the body (on strings 1 and/or 7) , and also put a bell crank on the target pedal(s)...and put the rod through the hole closest to the body.
Push both A and B then give the 1 and/or 7 a bump up if required ...
I usually colour the nylon tuners in Black to identify them more readily :-} |
Thanks Paddy - how do you adjust for when using only A or B when set up this way? I often play a 9th string root chord, and release either A or B...
Thanks! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Sep 2019 1:16 am
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Paddy has introduced a note of confusion. The purpose here is not to compensate for cabinet drop, but for the musical difficulty of one string trying to do two jobs.
In any tuning except strict ET, string 7 cannot be both a fourth below string 4 and a fifth below string 5 when it is raised to C#. If you want a usable F#m chord with A&B you must flatten 7, using the A pedal.
I find that my 9th-string root chord is fine as it is, but that will depends on precisely how you tune.
Some guitars may have sufficient cabinet drop to render all this unnecessary! 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
Last edited by Ian Rae on 16 Sep 2019 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 16 Sep 2019 2:10 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| The purpose here is not to compensate for cabinet drop, but for the musical difficulty of one string trying to do two jobs. |
Right. Cab-drop is a design-flaw (best fixed with a sledgehammer followed by a total redesign).
JI OTOH is the age-old challenge of making 12 perfect tunings work as one in any key, for which compensators can correct some of the JI-deviations but will introduce others. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Sep 2019 4:52 am
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JI-deviations?? It's equal temperament that deviates!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 16 Sep 2019 7:18 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| JI-deviations?? It's equal temperament that deviates! |
Of course but equally so in any key, and less to correct for if one want notes to sound good together.
Any pure JI tuning (one has choices) deviates in how good or bad notes sound together depending on key, bar-position and -handling, strings/notes picked and pedals/levers involved. Some chords will need more corrections than others, regardless of what JI tuning one chooses. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Sep 2019 7:31 am
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I won't hijack Marc's thread to reopen this discussion. I plan to make a video of how a naturally-tuned B6/E9 uni can be made to work. Apart from two different F#s, it has two C#s and two E#s as well. It sounds complicated but the mechanism takes care of it all and I never have to think about it.
Every chord I play is smack in tune.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 16 Sep 2019 7:33 am
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The OP has clearly chosen a JI tuning that works well enough with ONE correction. So the question is how to hook up rods for it, which seems to have been answered.
Years ago I tested out ways to get two-pitched C# (raised A or C pedal) for the same purpose. Worked fine but was more complex mechanically, but at least it was an option. |
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Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2019 5:11 pm
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| Georg Sørtun wrote: |
| Ian Rae wrote: |
| JI-deviations?? It's equal temperament that deviates! |
Of course but equally so in any key, and less to correct for if one want notes to sound good together.
Any pure JI tuning (one has choices) deviates in how good or bad notes sound together depending on key, bar-position and -handling, strings/notes picked and pedals/levers involved. Some chords will need more corrections than others, regardless of what JI tuning one chooses. |
Exactly Correct Georg. |
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