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Topic: Why no g# to g drop on E9? |
Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 8:48 am |
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Just starting to try to understand E9.
I sorta thought it would be a common change to drop the G#s to a G to make a minor 7 chord. But it seems like this is not generally a thing.
Is there an easy way to make a minor chord like that that I’m missing? I’d love to be able to play a defending chord progression from the tonic chord. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 9:17 am
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I use the 9th string 1/2 tone drop to get a minor seventh chord on strings 4,5,6, and 9. In the open position that would be a C#m7. Try this, all on strings 4,5,6 and 9:
Pedals 2,3 at 5th fret (Gmaj7)
9th string 1/2 tone lower at 8th fret (Am7)
9th string 1/2 tone lower at 10th fret (Bm7)
Here's some tab with similar changes and also 7b9 and 6/9 chords:
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab405.pdf
and here's what that sounds like:
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab405.wma
Many more examples here:
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/C6th%20On%20E9th/C6th%20On%20E9th.html
I don't have my steel in front of me right now, but I think there is a minor 7th chord on strings 4,5,6,7 with pedals 1,2 down:
string 4 E (7th)
string 5 C# (5th)
string 6 A (minor)
string 7 F# (root of the F#m7 chord)
Last edited by Greg Cutshaw on 3 Jun 2019 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 9:26 am
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I have the half tone drop, via a split, on the 6th string. I use this quite a bit.
I lower the 6th string a whole tone with my RKL and with the
B pedal (that raises 6 a half tone) that "raises" it to the half tone lower or G.
I don't lower the 3rd string (G#). I originally wanted to but was talked out of it by the builder (Mr Franklin). |
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Fred Justice
From:
Mesa, Arizona
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 9:34 am
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| Quote: |
| I sorta thought it would be a common change to drop the G#s to a G to make a minor 7 chord. ... Is there an easy way to make a minor chord like that that I’m missing? |
Are you talking only about min7 or minors in general? I sort of assume the latter - once you have a minor, you just need to find a b7, and there are various ways to get that.
I assume you're mainly talking about string 6 and perhaps string 3 - it's also common to raise string 1 to G or G#. Lowering 3 is not that common, but not unheard of. Lots of players get the 6th string G note (open strings) in various ways. Sometimes it's a dedicated G#=>G drop lever, sometimes it's a split with a G#=>F# lever and the B-pedal, sometimes it's a dedicated F#=>G lever, and so on. I personally use the 6th string G#=>F# lever a lot. So I split it with the B-pedal to get G, and I use that quite a bit too.
But there are lots of other ways to get minor chords. For example, relative to the pedals-up barred 1maj chord on the 'middle' grips, the A-pedal alone gives 6m; B+C-pedals give 2m, E=>Eb lever gives 3m, and half-pedal-A + B gives 4m - the half-pedal A can also be gotten by splitting the A-pedal and the 5th (and possibly 10th) string B=>Bb lever if you have it. But being able to lower the 3maj G# note smoothly to G to get 3min is a useful move. To me, having different ways to get minor chords is more about having different ways to smoothly move between various voicings. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 10:05 am
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Many modern guitars do lower the middle G# to G. It's done with split tuning on the G# to F# lever. Combining the lever with a raise pedal makes it a G# to G change. Modern guitars have a method to tune that "split" note.
I have this change on LKR, but a lot of players have it on their right knee.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 3:21 pm
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I do.
I play a wound 6th and of course there is NO DROP on it when I push just the A pedal.
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
Last edited by Ricky Davis on 4 Jun 2019 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 8:00 pm
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I lower both G#’s to G on all my guitars, and also lower the low G# to F# without splits...
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John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 9:18 pm
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I believe Ralph Mooney lowered his 3rd G# to G. I am told thats the way he played the Swinging Doors and Bottle Let Me Down licks instead of the way most of us play them by raising the 1st F# to G. You can plainly hear him using it on another of his tradmark licks by gripping 3,4,5 with the pedal engaged and letting it raise two or three times'
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 9:58 pm
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| It’s not an easy grip, but if you have the 1/2 step lower lever on string 2, you can change strings 7-5-2 from a major inversion to a minor inversion. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2019 2:22 pm
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Many players have had G# to G.
Ralph Mooney, Tom Brumley, Mike Johnson, Doug Livingston, to name a few.
There are other uses for G# to G lower.
In AB pedals down, the G gives you dom7 in a descending counterpoint, or melody, of:
Root, maj7, dom7...on same string.
Used with the B to Bb lower, you get a diminished chord that is better in tune than the standard E# raise. (The F is usually very flatted)
The open position Eminor has nice scale tones all around it. Lower string 2 and you get Emi7 Emi6, or A7.
In an “E tuningâ€, is seems obvious(to me), to have a lower that gives you a minor chord in home position. Why did Buddy and friends overlook this when they developed the pedal steel?
I suspect they envisioned the E9 neck for straight country. They all had the C6 neck, which has minor triads built into the open tuning.
You won’t need a G# to G to play the traditional E9 repertoire, because most of the famous playing was done without it.
That doesn’t mean it isn’t cool to have!
John |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2019 8:10 am
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| Awesome information. Thanks so much. |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2019 10:40 am
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| I've always lowered my G#s to G since 1973. On my current 12 string universal I lower all 3 G#s on RKR. On the same lever I also lower my 2nd string (which I tune to C#) to D for a nice m7. My Excel is the only guitar I've ever had that has enough leverage choices to move 4 strings easily with one lever. |
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