Difference between PSG amp and guitar amp

Mark Johnson · From: Illinois, USA

Newbie question
What is different about a PSG amp as opposed to a guitar amp? I use a Tone King Imperial that I also use for guitar, and it sounds fine to me.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Depends which regular guitar amp you want to compare it to.. there are some guitar amps that work great with steel.. and some I would imagine to be horrible.

But in general I would say you want an amp and compatible speaker voice that nicely covers from the lows of a bass guitar (probably baritone to be precise) to the highs of a regular guitar with a relatively neutral or flat midrange - and a carefully voiced upper midrange and treble voice that doesnt get spikey yet remains airy. All this requires very very well designed speakers because they sit putside the regular envelope on both top and bottom of their range.

This is why hi fi type speakers like the JBL and EVM-type voices are often used. They are sometimes referred to as extended range speakers.

The other parameter is high power, maximum clean headroom and a tight tracking power amp output.

By comparison, guitar players are often looking for low headroom distortion, both from preamp and power amp overdrive with a saggy soft and even a loose flabby feel.

For these reasons Fender Twins, many Mark model Mesa Boogie, and high powered Peavey solid state guitar amps can often be matched nicely with an appropriate speaker.

Some steel guitar amps and/or speakers are amazing with guitar. The original Nashville N112 speaker makes for an amazing guitar speaker... it can really sing with a smooth vocal blues tone and is never edgey even with crunchy rock tones. Unfortunately.. no longer in production or I would buy a 2nd one.

By contrast, the stock bass guitar speaker in the Peavey Vegas was a really bad design decision in light of the expectation of use of the 2nd channel for guitar or fiddle.. and the bass voice of the Steel channel didnt seem to reach low enough in spite of the bass speaker. Hence the mods and speaker replavements that have been done with that amp.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

For the standard "high-headroom, clean pedal steel sound", the big issues for a pedal steel amp are the ability to cleanly handle a wide range of frequencies with a pretty high volume, to be able to use the volume pedal for sustain. Most dedicated pedal steel amps also have quite versatile tone-shaping circuits to be able to dial in certain desirable frequencies and also minimize midrange "woof" that sometimes presents itself.

But this also depends on what kind of pedal steel sound you want, and what tunings you're using.

For example, if playing both E9 and C6 tuning, or 12-string Universal E9/B6 or Ext E9 tuning, there is a very wide range of frequencies that need to be handled well. For standard 10-string E9 tuning, the low range is more limited - it doesn't even go down to low E on a Guitar.

Fender Twin Reverbs were sort of standard issue in the 1960s and 70s, until Peavey came up with the Session 400 (and its smaller brother the LTD 400, same amp in a smaller box) in the mid-70s. Fender also came up with the Vibrosonic, basically a Twin Reverb chassis with a heavy duty 15" speaker. A lot of dedicated pedal steel amps since then have more or less followed this basic model.

But not everyone follows this model. For situations that don't require a high stage volume, amps like the blackface/silverface Deluxe/Vibrolux/Pro or even Princeton Reverb can be used. I have Tone King Imperial that sounds fine for steel if I don't have to be loud - it's more or less similar to a Deluxe Reverb with a higher-gain channel. These days I'm using a stock but strong silverface Deluxe Reverb with a JBL D120F for E9 or console steel playing if I can get away with it.

But then there are very different approaches, such as players doing Sacred Steel, blues, or rock approaches for which the sound is not clean like this. I first saw Eric Heywood back in the early 90s playing through a Vox AC-50 with Joe Henry. Very different sound.

If you're just starting out on pedal steel, I think your Tone King Imperial should work just fine unless/until you want to start pushing a lot of clean volume out in a band. I used a Deluxe Reverb exclusively for the first couple of years playing, until the band got too loud for it, at which point I got an LTD 400.

Michael Hill · From: Arizona, USA

I've tried my GFI PSG with a handful of Mesa guitar amplifiers. The results were not good at all. There was unwanted distortion, no low end, spiky high end. None of these problems could be dialed out.

I've also tried using a Sarno Revelation preamp (specifically designed for PSG) into the effects return of a Mesa guitar amp. This setup bypasses the Mesa preamp but does use the Mesa power amp. This works amazingly well and sounds great.

The takeaway from my experience is that the Mesa preamp is not compatible with a PSG. It's not a power amp 'Headroom' issue or a speaker issue or a preamp settings issue.

I've also seen comments saying the range of notes from a PSG exceeds the range a guitar amp expects. Maybe this is true for U12 or C6 but for E9, the note ranges are similar. 6 string guitar goes lower than E9 PSG. The PSG's highest string is a G# which is only 4 frets higher than a 6 string guitar's high E string.

Mark Johnson · From: Illinois, USA

Wow
Thanks for the incredibly detailed and thorough answers. I think the Tone King will be fine for now, for band practice and small bars. If I need to move up in the future I know know why and what to look for.
Thank you very muck
Mark

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

@Michael

Steel guitar has up to twice the output of a regular guitar pickup. No question the input could be overdriven and or one of the following tube stages.

You would have to know the amp design in schematic level detail to interpret your findings and to make the required signal chain adjustments.

Mike Brown · From: Meridian, Mississippi USA

For a beginner, Peavey introduced the Nashville 112 which features an XLR line out for sending the amp signal to mixing board, a headphone out that mutes the internal speaker when in use so that you can rehearse "quietly" while having your CS/IPod output plugged into the pre amp out/CD input. This feature is real handy. Check it out here;
https://assets.peavey.com/literature/manuals/00459770.pdf

Questions about Peavey? Call me at 1-877-732-8391, ext.1180.

Chris Tarrow · From: Maplewood, NJ

Tone King Imperial is loosely based on the Fender Deluxe, which is a great steel amp as long as you don't need a ton of volume. If you start doing gigs with a drummer and no monitors you may find you don't have enough headroom and the amp will start to break up. Which may be fine as well, but if you want super clean AND super loud you may need more power and/or a different speaker. Most tube amps built specifically for steel will have a lot of power.

John Goux · From: California, USA

What Dave and Tom have said....

A note about Fender BF/SF for pedal steel...
Amps from the Princeton to the Twin have all been used for pedal steel with great results, depending on your taste in tone.
My understanding is the preamp section from the low power to high power Fenders is essentially the same.
Modern steel pickups are wound hot, and will distort a Twin Reverb in the same way as a Princeton or Super Reverb, at the preamp or speaker.

The â€œtrickâ€ to getting a clean sound from a BF/SF Fender, is to use the volume pedal as an attenuation device, playing in the middle or back end of its volume range. This keeps the preamp from breaking up. This works the same on a Twin Reverb and it does on a Princeton.
Speakers are the other import factor in getting a clean sound. The low wattage Fender speakers will break up easily. Jensen C12N are good, and ofcourse, the famed JBL D120, EV, or Peavey speakers are good for high volume steel.

Same will apply to other companyâ€™s tube amps and guitar amps.
John

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

I think that speakers will be key here.

I gig with a Deluxe and have plenty of headroom at just about any bar or club.

However, the speakers I love for 6 string are not ideal for steel. The best compromise I have found are the Jensen Concert speakers.

The Imperial is an amazing amp. Maybe try some speaker swaps? Or else just get a dedicated amp for steel...

Forum Index > Electronics		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: