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Topic: Loosening screws on Emmons pp neck |
Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 7 Jan 2019 3:35 pm |
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Loosing neck-screws means one is creating a "rattler" – neck rattles against the top-plate, which produces a body-sound that may be seriously hard to tune to ones satisfaction. But … PPs are "rattlers" already (it's in their changer designs), so one may get lucky.
Most PSGs will produce a somewhat richer body-sound and not lose rigidness and develop bodydrop detuning, if screws near the changer are well tightened and successively loosened slightly towards the nut.
I got seriously lucky (based on my own taste that is) by lifting the neck clear of the top-plate on washers, and then tightening the neck really well to the top-plate w/screws, washers and nuts – no wood-screws here. Means neck and top-plate are more free to vibrate as individual pieces, instead of being dampened by each others. But, on that PSG the neck is extremely rigid and lifts the changer clear of the top-plate, so the spread of vibrations is very different from that of ordinary PSGs.
Overall bodydrop detuning is less than 1%, no matter how it is played.
The tonal effects of my total structural redesign can not be easily reproduced on regular PSGs, but thin washers between neck and body at all neck/body screw-points will tend to alter the body-sound of any PSG by providing more freedom for individual parts to vibrate.
Well-tightened screws through the washers means it should not have any negative effects on bodydrop detuning, and such a modification becomes very stable. Also easily reversable if one cannot get the sound one wants – just remove the washers and tighten it back together. |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2019 3:44 pm
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| Interesting Georg. That sounds like it would work well. When I loosened the screws and resnugged then, I am pretty confident in saying its tight enough not to rattle by resonating in contact with other parts. By all means I do not think they ought to be about ready to jiggle out loose, but not to the point were you need to break a sweat cracking them loose. |
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Al Evans
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2019 4:06 pm
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I heard there was a difference in tone between a slot headed screw and a Phillips head, any truth to that? 
Erv |
Doesn’t it depend on when the screws were made? I heard the pre-war screws were really THAT much better than anything since.
—Al Evans
_________________
2018 MSA Legend, 2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon |
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Benjamin Franz
From:
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 7 Jan 2019 5:10 pm
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| I’m curious. Do you people who have experimented with this hear a change in the acoustic sound of the steel? i.e. without plugging in? |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2019 7:05 pm
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| To think of it, no. I do not remember hearing a difference (noticable) in the un amplified instrument. But I couldnt say for sure |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2019 8:28 am
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Al,
Yes! It makes all the difference in the world!
And also, make sure your shirt is make out of Pima cotton, no other type will do!
Erv |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2019 10:13 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Al,
Yes! It makes all the difference in the world!
And also, make sure your shirt is make out of Pima cotton, no other type will do!
Erv |
Is that what Buddy worn??   |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2019 11:10 am
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Yes!
Nothing but Pima cotton for Buddy! 
Erv |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 7:02 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I heard there was a difference in tone between a slot headed screw and a Phillips head, any truth to that?
Erv |
I have heard that using black screws improves the tone. But you have to use a black screwdriver to tighten them. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 7:04 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I heard there was a difference in tone between a slot headed screw and a Phillips head, any truth to that?
Erv |
I have heard that using black screws improves the tone. But you have to use a black screwdriver to tighten them. |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 7:10 am Now it's a joke?
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| I guess some people must be certain that it makes no difference. I'd like to see some of the push/pull restorers (Mike Cass, Tommy Cass, Lynn Stafford & Billy Knowles) reply with their opinion. Just my 2 cents. Thanks, Tommy..... |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 8:23 am
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Goerg just gave me a good idea!...
I have some Steels where I wish the fretbord were closer to the strings.
A coupla washers between the neck and the body and, 'voila!
While the neck is off I could make a template, then make a spacer out of baltic birch or something...
hmmm.
fwiw, The best sounding PP I have heard in recent memory is a 3x2 G10 with basically no neck. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 9:33 am
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
| The best sounding PP I have heard in recent memory is a 3x2 G10 with basically no neck. |
I have a couple of old GS-10s. Both instruments were set up by a noted push/pull guru in Minnesota. One is a sunburst lacquer with 3x4 and no neck. The other is a bowlin' ball 'mica 3x1 with a BR-10 neck (basically a 1/4" thick chunk of black-painted maple). Both have had their legs upgraded to pro-style, adjustable steel legs for added weight and stability. The bowlin' ball has it's tone and volume controls intact; on the sunburst, both had been disconnected before I purchased the instrument. The point being that these two instruments are far from identical.
Just the other day, as an experiment, I plugged them both into the same amp (a Polytone Mini-Brute II) via a Morley ABY. Both have Emmons volume pedals with the new Goodrich pot installed, and were hooked up with identical cabling.
To these old ears, my two "student" instruments sound more alike than different. And in no way do they take a back seat, sound-wise, to my #1 -- a 1973 8x4 rosewood mica fatback D-10 with fat pedals that I've been playing since '77.
I consider the addition of the BR-10 neck a significant upgrade, so I recently fabricated another that will be installed on my sunburst as soon as it warms up enough around here that I can go outdoors and shoot a couple coats of black paint on it.
| Tommy Auldridge wrote: |
| I'd like to see some of the push/pull restorers (Mike Cass, Tommy Cass, Lynn Stafford & Billy Knowles) reply with their opinion. |
Don't know about Mike, Tommy, Lynn, or Billy, but the aforementioned push/pull guru told me the neck screw tightness theory was a load of hooey. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 9:39 am
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Jack,
It ranks right up there with: "black guitars sound the best".
Erv |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 9:56 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Jack,
It ranks right up there with: "black guitars sound the best".
Erv |
That's undoubtedly true, Erv.
Nevertheless, whenever I do get the chance to paint my new BR-10 neck black, I plan to give its attachment screws a couple of coats, too. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 10:02 am
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Slot head or Phillips head?
Erv |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 11:26 am
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| At this point I'm leaning towards Torx, Erv. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 11:36 am
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Good choice,
That's what the Norwegians serve up here in Minnesota in the Winter time.
Oh, I'm sorry, I guess that's Torsk.
Erv |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 11:53 am Funny & fun section
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| I guess it's time to move this over to the section with the jokes. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2019 12:10 pm
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Tommy,
You are correct!
The whole topic under discussion is a joke.
Erv |
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