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Topic: Unusual Emmons 8-String Lap Steel |
Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 16 Aug 2018 5:12 pm |
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I just bought this platypus of an Emmons steel on Reverb.com - one of the few LS-8 lap steels they produced in the early 70's. I've seen pictures of about a half dozen and their features vary a bit but generally match the 1970s catalog photo: walnut stained mahogany or black lacquer, curved Gumby headstock, straight light colored Emmons decal horizontal between the tuners, and tone and volume pots, like on the GS-line student steels.
But this one is red (like the lacquer on the "redburst" GS models), a black Emmons "V" decal to fit a longer, sharper headstock profile, and a tone bypass switch in place of volume, like the pro model S-1 (which, with a volume pedal, I think is more practical for on-the-fly tone change). I can't wait to try it out.
Meanwhile, I'm curious - have any Forum members seen this model? With the black button Klusons, it's hard to tell whether this is an earlier model, proto, later edition or a one-off? Finish and fingerboard suggest pretty low mileage. Please weigh in if you know something about this model or this guitar. |
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 6:04 am
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Yeah, that does look different! I have one that matches the picture in that old Emmons catalog. The headstock on yours looks more refined, different tuners.
Yours looks very cool!
I absolutely love the sound of mine but need to do something with the electronics -- no idea if someone messed with them, but both knobs affect both volume and tone, and not in a particularly helpful way...
I often wonder how many of these were made, anyone know?
- Slim.
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 7:59 am
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| Could it be one of the elusive "out the back door at Burlington" models? Very cool instrument; a great find. I bet it sounds different from most LS-8s that feature the DeArmond pickup. I've heard tell of that fire-engine red lacquer on GS-10s, but have never seen one. |
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 9:02 am
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Thanks, Slim and Jack, for your posts. Yes it is a bit of a mystery ride - will know more when I get it. It has the standard Emmons steel pickup so it should sound more like the Emmons pedal steel (I have single and double neck Emmons PSGs - but aluminum necks so this should sound more like the wood neck guiars). As for your tone and volume weirdness, Slim, that does sound odd - I encounter that sort of crossover in standard electrics with 2 pickups-especially stereo wired guitars. You can see this one has no volume control - just tone with a bypass switch in place of the volume pot. Emmons pedal steels have that feature too - nice to dial off the treble and then hit the switch to go straight pickup sound into the output jack. If it's like the bypass on a Fender Esquire control setup, the bypass should be stronger and brighter than "tone on 10" since it cuts the pot out of the circuit altogether.
I have 3 PSGs but never had a lap steel. If you have any recommendations for tuning, I'm all ears. I plan on a 6th tuning and I like the low tuning with F in the bass (or even to use low C then F in bass like PSG 10 sting tuning) building in the F Maj7 chord along with the C maj, C6 and A min. But I look forward to experimenting... I'll post again when I get the guitar. |
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 9:06 am
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| BTW, Jack, this guitar is coming from North Carolina, about an hour from the old Emmons factory ... so maybe a Burlington back door model! |
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 9:23 am
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| Could it be one of the elusive "out the back door at Burlington" models? Very cool instrument; a great find. I bet it sounds different from most LS-8s that feature the DeArmond pickup. I've heard tell of that fire-engine red lacquer on GS-10s, but have never seen one. |
Interesting, mine has the Emmons pickup as well...
As for tuning, I’m currently doing a B6 to be similar to my U12 psg, but with a b7 on the bottom, so, top-down: F#, Eb, B, G#, F#, D#, B, A
(but I’m still a relative novice on this thing, so take this with a very big grain of salt)
- Slim
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 10:13 am
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Nice! Yours look under-the-bed new!! And you have the case too! Did it come with it or did you find one that fits?
N |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 10:15 am
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I have seen very few LS-8s, but to the best of my recollection, they all featured the DeArmond pickup, like the one in the photo on the back cover of the famous 1975 Emmons catalog. I've seen a few GS-8s with the DeArmond, too.
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 10:17 am
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| Slim - the other (minor) difference I notice is that yours and all others I've seen in photos have nickel slot-head screws for the control assembly and pickup mount - mine has black phillips head. I suggests it was made in a different era? I dunno - another mystery. I'm glad you love the sound of yours - I should have a similar experience. Thanks again for weighing in ... |
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 10:49 am
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Jack - thanks for posting the cover shot - what a collection! Yes I see the lap steel has the deArmond pickup. I have seen about a half dozen in posts on the forum or old sale postings that use the PSG 8 pole pickup so I guess they went from one to the other.
Coincidentally, the GS model on the front right of the cover collection is the redburst I was talking about. It's sort of dark on the cover. Here is a brighter shot of one of 2 or 3 I saw for sale over the past year or so. It's applied to the wood - no mica. The red is hot. The black burst effect? Not sure I love it. Reminds me of those old faux sunburst Harmony and Silvertone archtops! Some seem to have all red wood pedal bars; some carry over the black burst look.
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 10:53 am
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| Nelson Checkoway wrote: |
Nice! Yours look under-the-bed new!! And you have the case too! Did it come with it or did you find one that fits?
N |
Well, not exactly, at some point it looks like it suffered a terrible accident with a solid but unsightly repair job(see attached), but yes, it came with the case.
- Slim
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 12:09 pm
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| Nelson Checkoway wrote: |
| Jack - thanks for posting the cover shot - what a collection! |
You're welcome, Nelson. But to give credit where credit is due, I lifted that pic off this Forum.
I've been drooling over that back cover photo for most of my life! |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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William Rasch
From:
Vermont, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 12:40 pm
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Heres my redburst. This is the picture of it when I bought it off the forum. Modded out with four knees. It's a great guitar
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 12:46 pm
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Thanks, Doug - yes I found that video earlier and watched/heard - great playing. It definitely has the Emmons PSG sound more than the grittier tone you might get from a Gibson with a P-90. I also saw/heard your Sleepwalk video on the Gibson Century - great playing too! - and I hear the difference. I'll find out when it arrives and I run through its paces.
I play guitar and keys too and I'm partial to a warm tube-driven sound for bluesier stuff -- will want to hear how this sounds through a clean amp and also through a more wooden, vintage tone (I have all the midpower Fender blackface amp; also some great old Gibsons like the GA-40).
I'm curious - what amp(s) did you use to record the Atlantis and Sleepwalk videos? |
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 1:06 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
If you wanna hear how one sounds, here's a video I made a couple of years ago. It's not my favorite sounding lap steel. I go more for a vintage tone and this lap steel does not have that. It's plenty strong and clean, it's just not the 50's tone I'm use to hearing and playing.
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Good point, however, I really like it.
At the risk of exposing my immature technique on the instrument, here's the one recording I've done with it so far, but what I love about this axe is no matter what amp I plug it into, and what settings I use, it still sounds great to my ears (wish I could say that about all my guitars!). This, however, was straight into the board, with a bit of EQ and reverb applied:
https://slimandpenny.com/static/web/audio/if-i-didnt-022-mix-002.mp3
- Slim
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Bill Leff
From:
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 1:20 pm
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Wow Slim, that sounds great! Love the entire package there.
-Bill (fellow Aptosian) |
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 2:05 pm
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| Beautiful Slim - great tone and touch on the steel. And I love the comping and the harp too!!! |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 5:47 pm
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Wow! Master Slim, that clarinet/steel pairing is one I never heard before, and in that context, I think the tones match well. I'm a little weird in that I like steel tones that DO change, rather than finding the One Almighty Godzilla Tone that crushes everything in it's path... clarinet, hmmmm....
Regarding the tone/volume interaction, perhaps the finest 79c tools I ever invented are some little 2-or-3 inch wires with the small size alligator clips soldered on each end. You always run into these instructions
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| "...if the tonal combination sounds strangled, even French, change the RED wire to the grommet and the BLUE wire to the second little pokey thing..." |
Sometimes I think I can read schematics, but stuff can go so weird so fast just having a pile of these little insty-wires to try all the different connections is faster than rabbit-holing into that whole
 Captain Buzzy sez:
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| THINK LIKE AN ELECTRON! |
"Keep yer gun in the holster til ya know who your shooting, Podner"...
There's this bizarre "vintage" antique-y thing about old solder - if you have an old guitar that doesn't work, the busted "original solder" gobs MAY be worth more than if you, like, FIX IT so the damn thing works... to, like, play music? So of course there are now  criminals who specialize in making deceitful old-LOOKING solder gobs.
(it's only worth $100,000 or $80,000 or so on a 1959 Les Paul... give or take $25,000 or $37,500 dollars or so....)
Zoot alors! |
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 7:52 pm
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Thanks guys, but I really didn't mean to hijack Nelson's thread. And David, that's hilarious! Although I don't think I need to worry about the original solder thing, considering the condition of the headstock  .
I hope you enjoy your new axe, Nelson -- I'm guessing you will! (Love the color!)
- Slim.
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 9:08 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| It's not my favorite sounding lap steel. I go more for a vintage tone and this lap steel does not have that. It's plenty strong and clean, it's just not the 50's tone I'm use to hearing and playing. |
So, I'll bite, Doug---what IS your favorite sounding lap steel?
(LOVE your playing, BTW!!)
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2018 10:41 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| I’d have to say my Gibson Century 6 is my favorite lap steel. |
I like my black Century the best, too. There's something about that early postwar oval pickup that's pretty special. |
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