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Topic: Harmonics Santo Style |
Thomas Bohlen
From:
New York, NY
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Posted 26 Apr 2018 8:24 pm |
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I'm having a persisting issue making my harmonics sounds good, mainly due to volume. When I listen to Santo and Johnny songs like Sleepwalk and Tear Drop, Santo's harmonic slides sound so full and loud, but when I make this attempt it's much too soft and about half the volume of normal notes.
It's not so much if I just play a harmonic, but rather when the harmonic is plucked and I slide to another note. It's just too weak. Any suggestions?
Also noticing that when I play up the neck (on a stringmaster) a lot of the high register notes sound weak too. No sustain, no bite. But then I listen to records and it sounds amazing. What am I missing here?
Thanks all, always appreciate the knowledge bestowed by the forum. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 7:25 am
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| That's one of the uses for a foot volume control. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 8:16 am
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First, I suggest practicing harmonics on your acoustic steel. If you can't hit them, the amplified steel cannot amplify them!
After you are very secure on your palm, knuckle, finger, etc. harmonics, then you can find the sweet spot on your steel to get a good tone.
On my little old Magnatone lap steel, the harmonics almost pop out of the instrument. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 9:01 am
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| Quote: |
| ...then you can find the sweet spot |
Yes, and that sweet spot is 12 frets above the bar. That's where the edge of the right hand should touch the string. Of course, that 12-fret distance is shorter as you go up the neck because the upper frets are closer together. So you have to adjust the spacing as you go up the neck.
Try this (for palm harmonics)... put your bar on fret 3 and find the sweet spot for the chime. When you find it, notice which fret your thumbpick is on (or near) when you pick the string. For me, to play a perfect harmonic with the bar on fret 3, my thumb picks just below fret 10. When I pick the string at that spot, the edge of my hand is touching the string at fret 15 (12 frets above the bar), producing the harmonic. So I don't look at the edge of my hand, I look at the thumbpick and I pick just below fret 10. That approach gives me a strong harmonic every time (or most of the time!) 
The volume pedal is also important. As always with a volume pedal, you set the amp volume louder than needed and play with the pedal about halfway down. When you nail a harmonic, press the pedal down to draw out the harmonic. Bring it back to the middle position before picking again.
_________________
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Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 27 Apr 2018 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 9:03 am
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Doug,
Yes, and the foot volume is also handy for when you hit a clam and want to cover it up--you just ease up on the foot volume!  |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 9:28 am
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...then you can find the sweet spot |
Yes, and that sweet spot is 12 frets above the bar. That's where the edge of the right hand should touch the string. Of course, that 12-fret distance is shorter as you go up the neck because the upper frets are closer together. So you have to adjust the spacing as you go up the neck.
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great advice...of course the only place to hit the actual harmonic is half the distance from bar to bridge, but the way you hit them, I guess, was what I meant. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 9:33 am
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| I've heard a lot of beginners pump the volume pedal unnecessarily or stomp all the way down on it and leave it down, which defeats the purpose of a volume pedal. |
Part of why I suggested using an acoustic for learning. Of course while learning on an electric, you could ignore the volume pedal at first, too. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 12:38 pm
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I could be wrong about this, but I believe that the loud harmonic Santo plays on Sleepwalk is played on string 1, which is easier to get a super strong hit to make a killer harmonic. Also, lift the heel of the bar, leave just the nose on the string you're picking, if you're going to hit a harmonic and slide it up. That'll keep noise on the lower strings absent or minimized.
_________________
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▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 1:21 pm
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I think you’re right, John. It looks like Santo’s playing that on string 1, which is the best string for getting a clear, loud harmonic, as you said. Since string 1 is the outer string, you can nail it hard and your hand can follow though because there are no strings beyond string 1. That makes a difference. On pedal steel E9 I played that chime on fret 3, string 4 for many years. But was hit or miss (no pun). Then I smartened up and started playing it on string 1, fret 1 and it sounds so much stronger. On C6 non-pedal with high E it’s string 1, fret 3.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 5:55 pm
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| From my experience, the instrument itself makes all the difference in the world. On some of my lap steels, it is extremely difficult to coax out a strong harmonic. On others, it's much easier. There's one in particular on which the harmonics just seem to fly off the strings with a minimum of effort. (It's the one I prefer when playing Sleepwalk, of course.) |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2018 9:04 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...then you can find the sweet spot |
When you find it, notice which fret your thumbpick is on (or near) when you pick the string. |
I never thought of that. It’s probably the best advice I have ever got for playing harmonics. Thanks, Doug. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 4:50 am
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| John McClung wrote: |
| I could be wrong about this, but I believe that the loud harmonic Santo plays on Sleepwalk is played on string 1, which is easier to get a super strong hit to make a killer harmonic. Also, lift the heel of the bar, leave just the nose on the string you're picking, if you're going to hit a harmonic and slide it up. That'll keep noise on the lower strings absent or minimized. |
I've always played that harmonic bit on string one. I've been using a palm harmonic - what do you guys use? |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 7:36 am
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Same here.  |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 7:45 am
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| Same here. |
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Francisco Castillo
From:
Easter Island, Chile
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 10:40 am harmonic
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| i'm new to lap steel, but been playing finger harmonics for quite some time in other instruments, so i'm using the same technique. i'm having trouble finding the sweet spot with the palm of my hand. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 12:31 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| From my experience, the instrument itself makes all the difference in the world. On some of my lap steels, it is extremely difficult to coax out a strong harmonic. On others, it's much easier. There's one in particular on which the harmonics just seem to fly off the strings with a minimum of effort. (It's the one I prefer when playing Sleepwalk, of course.) |
And just which particular instrument is that, Jack?
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 12:34 pm
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Anyone use knuckle harmonics (with their picking hand pinky knuckle)?
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 1:19 pm
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| Steven Paris wrote: |
| And just which particular instrument is that, Jack? |
It's this one, Steve:
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Mike A Holland
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 3:13 pm
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| Andy, I use my little finger knuckle about 70% of the time and palm harmonics the other 30%. I find I can see more accurately were my finger is placed over the required fret with this method! |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 29 Apr 2018 1:12 pm
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| I use my right ring finger knuckle for chimes. |
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