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Topic: Dom7 vs. Maj7 |
Savell
From:
Slocomb, AL
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Posted 14 Feb 2018 3:43 am |
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Dom7 vs. Maj7
When do you use one instead of the other? |
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2018 4:23 am
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The Dom7 has a lot of tension in it (sounds harsh) and it needs to be resolved. It implies motion, usually from a I chord to a IV chord or from a V chord back to a I chord.
The maj7 is more of a "color" chord - it adds interest to a I chord or a IV chord for example but doesn't have the tension that leaves the listener feeling it needs to be resolved.
You can use the maj7 in a gradual walkdown i.e. I - Imaj7 - I7. It doesn't really pick up the tension that needs to be resolved until the I7 where it would usually be followed by a IV chord. |
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Chris Tarrow
From:
Maplewood, NJ
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Posted 14 Feb 2018 5:27 am
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Also typical:
use the dom. 7 on the 1,4, and 5 chords in a 12 bar blues
Use the dom. 7 on the 2 chord in country tunes |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 14 Feb 2018 7:19 am
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A dom7 in the 1 chord walks you into the 4 chord. A dom7 in the V chord leads you back to the 1 chord.
edit: well, well, I should read. This was already explained above.  |
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Leon Grizzard
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2018 1:14 pm
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Stylistically, the M7 chord is the standard I and IV chord in mainstream jazz, beginning the 1950's and its sound is not used much in country, (or swing, or rock). Too sweet. The opening chord of The Nightlife is a M7, and the first chord on Empty Glass pulls off from the root of the I chord to the M7. And first chord of the bridge of Empty Glass (at least the way I learned it). Slow, boozy tunes mostly, in country.
As said above, functionally a dominant seventh chord is used to resolve to a chord whose root is a perfect fifth below (fourth up) and is also used when we just want the jangley color of the sound, like in blues. A lot of times the IV chord in country sounds good using a dom7 instead of just a straight up triad. |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 15 Feb 2018 1:41 pm
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| Since there is only one dominant 7th chord per key, a dominant 7th chord is often used in jazz as an indicator of a key modulation. |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2018 8:38 am
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Also in a major scale the Dom7 technically only exists on the V chord, where it is a note in the root major scale. (G7 in a C scale, F note.)
Your other two flatted 7ths are accidentals, again in C scale the Bb (C7) and Eb (F7).
Ergo "Dominant..."
Accidentals are useful but they have their own sound and feeling.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2018 1:18 pm
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Anyone who plays a maj.7 on the I chord in a country song in my band is automatically sent to Siberia.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Jim Park
From:
Carson City, Nv
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Posted 19 Feb 2018 7:14 pm
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| As they should Clyde... A C Maj7 turns into an Em so a 3 minor against a 1 maj 😡 |
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Jamie Mitchell
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 21 Feb 2018 4:25 pm
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| Jeff Garden wrote: |
| The Dom7 has a lot of tension in it (sounds harsh) and it needs to be resolved. It implies motion, usually from a I chord to a IV chord or from a V chord back to a I chord. |
except in any 7-limit material - blues, rock, etc... |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 22 Feb 2018 3:58 pm
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Most of the band America's 1970s hits would not exist without the major 7th chord.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Russ Wever
From:
Kansas City
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Posted 22 Feb 2018 5:33 pm
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| Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
Also in a major scale the Dom7 technically only exists on
the V chord, where it is a note in the root major scale. |
The V chord is a triad consisting of a Root, Third
and Fifth, and not a Seventh: However the Vdom7 chord,
consists of a Root, Third, Fifth and minor Seventh.
The Dom7 is also present in the IImi7, the IIImi7, the VImi7
as well as the VIImi7b5, all of which are diatonic chords
found within the notes of the Major Scale.
~Rw
_________________
www.russface
www.russguru
Last edited by Russ Wever on 24 Feb 2018 9:23 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 7:51 pm
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| Russ Wever wrote: |
| Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
Also in a major scale the Dom7 technically only exists on
the V chord, where it is a note in the root major scale. |
The Dom7 is not in the V chord, which is a triad consisting
of a Root, Third and Fifth: However it is in the Vdom7 chord,
which consists of a Root, Third, Fifth and Major Seventh.
The Dom7 is also present in the IImi7, the IIImi7, the VImi7
as well as the VIImi7b5, all of which are diatonic chords
found within the notes of the Major Scale.
~Rw |
Acknowledged and humbled, thank you.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Leon Grizzard
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 5:08 am
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| Russ Wever wrote: |
| Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
Also in a major scale the Dom7 technically only exists on
the V chord, where it is a note in the root major scale. |
The Dom7 is not in the V chord, which is a triad consisting
of a Root, Third and Fifth: However it is in the Vdom7 chord,
which consists of a Root, Third, Fifth and Major Seventh.
The Dom7 is also present in the IImi7, the IIImi7, the VImi7
as well as the VIImi7b5, all of which are diatonic chords
found within the notes of the Major Scale.
~Rw |
A dominant seventh chord does not have a major seventh; it has had a 10 half step minor seventh; usually called a b7 to avoid confusion with minor seventh chords.
b7 occurs in other chords in the major scale, but in that context they are properly called minor sevenths, not dominant sevenths. A minor seventh chord is defined as a minor chord with a minor seventh. Dominant seventh is a chord type, not an interval. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 7:00 am
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| Possibly related: why is the V chord in a minor scale a major chord? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 7:59 am
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| Charlie McDonald wrote: |
| Possibly related: why is the V chord in a minor scale a major chord? |
I'm no expert, but I imagine it's the same as to why the 3 & 6 chords in a major scale are minor chords. I'm interested in the answer too.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Leon Grizzard
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 9:47 am
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| Charlie McDonald wrote: |
| Possibly related: why is the V chord in a minor scale a major chord? |
The naturally occurring V chord in the minor scale is a minor chord. We use the dominant seventh type chord, like we do in the major scale, because it has more of a pull to the tonic minor chord. The third of the V7 chord is half step below the tonic note, and the ear, having become accustomed to hearing the tonic note as home, is pulled from the half step below up to tonic. On the minor V chord, the third of the V chord is a full step below tonic, and so does not have that same pull to resolution.
The dominant seventh chord also has a discordant tritone not present in the minor V, or minor7 chord, and the tritone also pulls the ear to wanting resolution. |
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Leon Grizzard
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 10:05 am
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| Charlie McDonald wrote: |
| Possibly related: why is the V chord in a minor scale a major chord? |
I'm no expert, but I imagine it's the same as to why the 3 & 6 chords in a major scale are minor chords. I'm interested in the answer too. |
The basic body of triads (three note chords) we use in a given key are generated from the notes of the scale itself: start on each note of the scale, and play every other note, ascending, for a total of the three notes. Like in the key of C, start on C, skip D, play E, skip F and play G. Then start on D, skip E, play F, skip G, play A. We call the notes of each chord root, or 1, 3, and 5. That is, start with 1, skip the next note up (2), play the 3d note up, skip the 4th note up, etc.
When you do that with the major scale you find you will have generated three chords that have a root, a major third (4 half steps) and a perfect fifth (7 half steps), three chords that have a root, a minor third (3 half steps) and a perfect fifth, and one chord with a minor third and diminished fifth (6 half steps).
So three major chords formed on the 1st, 4th and 5th notes of the scale ascending, called I, IV and V, three minor chords formed on the 2d, 3d and 6th notes of the scale ascending, often indicated by lower case Roman numerals, ii, iii, and vi, and a diminished triad on the seventh note, which we don’t really use as such; not the diminished chord you see called for in chord charts.
Just the way it works out.
You can go further beyond 1, 3, 5, and generate a 7, 9, 11 and 13 above each root, and then the notes start repeating. If you generate a 7th on each of the major triads, you get a major seventh above the I and IV chords, but a minor seventh, or b7, above the V chord. Again, just the way it works out.
The fifth note of the major scale is named the dominant (each note has a formal name), and so a chord which has the formula major triad with b7, is called a dominant seventh type chord. |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 12:24 pm
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| Leon Grizzard wrote: |
...
The fifth note of the major scale is named the dominant (each note has a formal name), and so a chord which has the formula major triad with b7, is called a dominant seventh type chord. |
I got a ferocious lecture from an expert on another forum for referring to any "7th" (i.e. triad + b7 note) chord as a "dominant 7th" except the V7th. Per him the I7 and IV7 didn't rate the name.
Personally it proves to me that I was stupid to show my ignorance in this thread. And the other one years ago.
Live and (fail to) learn.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 1:38 pm
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This has been a great discussion, and thanks to Andy Volk, from now on whenever I'm thinking of a mental image or example of a maj7 chord, I'll have "Ventura Highway" playing in my head. Andy, ok, now how do I get it out of my head? 
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 2:54 pm
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| I seem to be caught on Ventura Highway as well. Going down the road I learned something; I had a feeling that Leon might know. |
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Leon Grizzard
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 7:25 pm
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| Brooks Montgomery wrote: |
| This has been a great discussion, and thanks to Andy Volk, from now on whenever I'm thinking of a mental image or example of a maj7 chord, I'll have "Ventura Highway" playing in my head. Andy, ok, now how do I get it out of my head? |
Dang you all! I had forgotten about that song; now it's stuck in my head, too. |
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Russ Wever
From:
Kansas City
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 9:38 pm
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| Leon Grizzard wrote: |
A dominant seventh chord does not have a major seventh; it has had a 10 half step minor seventh; usually called a b7 to avoid confusion with minor seventh chords.
b7 occurs in other chords in the major scale, but in that context they are properly called minor sevenths, not dominant sevenths. A minor seventh chord is defined as a minor chord with a minor seventh. Dominant seventh is a chord type, not an interval. |
Good catch Leon . . I knew I shouldn't post on an empty stomach 
I've edited my post accordingly.
Thanks.
If, as you say, in a minor Seventh chord, the term 'minor' applies to
the seventh note, how does one know that the third of the chord is
meant to be a minor Third as opposed to a Major Third?
~Rw
_________________
www.russface
www.russguru |
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Russ Wever
From:
Kansas City
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 9:46 pm
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| Charlie McDonald wrote: |
| Possibly related: why is the V chord in a minor scale a major chord? |
This is certainly not a complete answer, but by having
the V chord of the minor key be a Major chord, the
Major Third of that V chord is a Leading Tone to the
Root of the minor chord.
I hope someone else can provide a more in-depth reply.
~Rw
_________________
www.russface
www.russguru |
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