First Pedal Steel, a host of issues!

Alex Hebert · From: Louisiana, USA

I've just purchased my first PSG on the cheap knowing it needed adjustments and setup. I'm realizing I'm not as equipped to make these adjustments as I thought I'd be! E9 tuning, 5 pedals, 4 knee levers, no real info about the parts... it all looks pretty homemade:

First off, the third string has popped twice. First time was because the pedal was pulling too far, but after tuning that, I popped another string, both times just behind the nut. 10 gauge strings on 26 1/2 scale-- anything in the photo suggest something is wrong? I notice the string angle from the crimping screw to the nut is almost non-existent

Second, I've loosened the plastic rod ends to the point that they'll shoot off when depressing a pedal. Any tighter and the pedal pulls too far. Obviously some other adjustment needs to be made, so what is the next variable? Raising the stop below the pull rod? Different hole on the bell crank finger?

I have a long way to go, as a couple of the pedals are too difficult to even depress and I haven't even hooked up the knee levers yet, but I just want to play! I am happy to have found this resource and would appreciate any help.

Thanks

Daniel McKee · From: Corinth Mississippi

if your guitar is 26 1/2 scale you are likely not gonna get that third string up to pitch even with the small gauge. That would be a strange scale for a pedal steel but it could have been set up for a lower tuning such as a 6th tuning of sorts. Hopefully there will be lots of input to help you get this figured out but you might be able to try a lower variation of E9th such as D9th and make it work. Either way its a cool looking steel and should be a lot of fun to experiment with.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Are you sure about the scale length? 26 & 1/2 inches is very long. Are you measuring from the center of the nut to the center of the bridge?

I would contact the seller and ask what tuning was on this guitar. As Daniel mentioned, C6th or even A6th seem like good possibilities. 5 floor floor pedals is not typical for the E9 tuning, but it is standard for a C6th tuned neck.

If you post a picture of the underside it's possible we can figure out what the tuning is, just from the rods. The rodding looks remarkably similar for all steels with the common tunings.

Regarding the third string breaking, try an 09 gauge. (Assuming you stick with the E9 tuning.) Or lower the tuning to D9, as Daniel suggested.

Regarding pedals pulling too far, you have to reduce the pedal travel. There should be some adjustment for that.
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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I think you should have asked for some advice here on the Forum before you made the purchase. Whoa!

Alex Hebert · From: Louisiana, USA

My mistake, 26" scale length** I didn't realize this was so much longer than the norm.

The first three pedals are not far from typical E9, so I didn't give much thought to it being setup for something different. The seller did not say to the contrary either.

pedal A raises 5th and 9th strings
pedal B raises 3rd and 6th strings
pedal C raises 4th and 5th strings
pedal D raises 6th and 10th strings
pedal E lowers 1st and raises 7th strings

Would this be more common on another tuning?

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I have to agree with Erv. It sounds good to buy a cheapie "basket case" and try to revive it but starting out its better to have something that is playable. The first step is learning how to play, not how to "build" a steel.

Tim Russell · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I had an S-10 Sierra/ 5/4 setup in the 80's.

P4 lowered 3 & 6
P5 lowered 5 & 10

Knees were standard Emmons setup.

I think you have a workable guitar there, however, it looks like you need a "steel mechanic" to give it a proper setup. You may be able to work your way through it, but will probably end up with a lot of frustration until you get it tweaked just right.
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Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Well, we all know hindsight is always 20:20.......

Since Alex is now the owner of this guitar, we ought to all focus on helping him get it set-up......so it's as playable as possible.

Alex, as Paul stated, 5 or 6 undercarriage pics would be a good starting point.

Alex Hebert · From: Louisiana, USA

Appreciate that Tony.

Tuned a whole step down from E9, the pedals pull a bit easier, my biggest issue now is tuning the pedals properly. I can't go any looser on the plastic hex heads, is the next step just limiting the range of pedal motion with the stopper screw?

Thank you all for your help

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

First comment: much of this is a crude clone of a BMI guitar.

Tuning down to D is a VERY good idea.

Yes. Absolutely, the first step to limiting the pull would be exactly as you suggest. Turn the pedal stop to reduce the travel.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

25" scale is very rare but the guitars that use this have special engineering solutions to prevent string breakage (because it really is taking string stress to the limits).
24" or 24.25" are the common scales.
26"? I don't know that I've ever heard of a 26" scale pedal steel. Lacking specific engineering to deal with the scale, yes, tune it down.

Edward Rhea · From: Medford Oklahoma, USA

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=324992
Youâ€™re welcome!ðŸ˜‰
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Mike Flick · From: California, USA

Is the fret board made for a 26 inch string length? If it was my guitar I'd shorten the neck and move the keyhead.

Tim Russell · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Alex Hebert · From: Louisiana, USA

All the pedals are tuned and the guitar is playable in the D9 tuning. My patience was tested for a while but downtuning made a big difference and I didn't have that much trouble tuning the pedals once I limited their range with the stop screw.

Really the only issue I'm facing now is the strings not fully returning to their pitches after pressing the pedals. It's only a couple of the pedals, and a wiggle of the pedal rod seems to get the string back to its pitch. I understand it won't be perfect with the quality of this guitar, but some steps to remedy this?

Thanks to all for your help.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If strings are not returning, either the changer or the pull train has friction (or there may be a ball end of a former broken string in there blocking the way).
Take a Philips head screwdriver and push on the raise scissor and lower scissor of each string, and see that each scissor returns to the stop bar.
Also, make sure that all of the crossbars pivot freely, and that pedals move freely on their axles.
Small amounts of friction can add up to a frustrating amount of unplayability.
I'm seeing the 10th string standing proud of the stop bar (that's the plate/strip directly under the lower return springs). Either the scissor has friction, or the pedal does not have enough travel.
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Pat Chong · From: New Mexico, USA

Hi Ken,
Interesting unit there. You had mentioned what your pedals do, what do your knee levers do?

..................Pat.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Alex: Can you flip the pictures 180 degrees? Whenever I look at the underneath of my steel the changers is to the left and the tuning key end is to the right. That's the normal way the steel goes in the case and that's the orientation that's the easiest to work on the steel.

Also, can you provide more pictures of the rods going into the changer? Some of what I'm looking at I find very confusing and I can't see everything.

Having the A floor pedal raise the ninth string rather than the tenth string is not consistent with a normal E9 tuning. But I suppose a person could eliminate the low D pitch on the ninth string, tune it to B (the normal 10th string pitch), and then tune the 10th string to something else (perhaps G# or E). (For simplicity I'll refer to the E9 tuning even though you plan to tune down a whole step.)

Do you happen to know what gauge strings are on the guitar? Did you put a new set on of normal E9 strings, or are they something else? Is the tenth string a much bigger gauge string than the ninth?

Finally, as has been stated by Pat C. we need to know what the knee levers do.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I think it would be appropriate to say this, and I don't mean to be harsh.

As a new player, you are going to be spending a great deal of time trying to understand this Steel and then bringing it to a playing condition . New players have a hard enough time just trying to figure out how to play anything, now add the mechanics of the Steel into the equation.

To me, this Steel looks homemade using parts from various outlets. We have all seen multiple Steels, ALL BRANDS, over the years and this one fits NO MOLDS. It's alone on an island. Sorry to say.

Did it ever function properly before ? Where did this Instrument come from and from who ?

I would try to locate another Steel player ( technical minded) within reason of where you live, bring him the guitar and let them take a look and offer an on the spot opinion.

Buying a first Pedal Steel can be loads of fun or loads of headaches. The headaches are supposed to be the out of tune scratchy noises we make while learning how to play.
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Alex Hebert · From: Louisiana, USA

Unfortunately the fretboard is not consistent with the scale length of the guitar, so playing directly above the fret itâ€™s all slightly flat. Looks like the long term solution would be to adjust the scale length to whatever the fretboardâ€™s meant for.

Paul, I bought the guitar without strings so I donâ€™t know what the previous owner had it tuned to. Seems to me the pedals are to some custom configuration but closer to standard E9 than anything else? Here are rotated pictures of rods and changer

As I mentioned the knee levers are not hooked up, but they are set up for:

LKL lower 3rd string, raise 7th
LKR lower 4th, lower 8th
RKL lower 5th, lower 9th
RKR raise 2nd, raise 9th

from the chart Iâ€™m comparing to only the LKR is the standard.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Alex: Thanks for the flipped pictures. First issue I would try to resolve is the scale length. What is the exact distance from the center of the nut to the center of the 12th fret line on the fretboard? Doubling that distance gives you the scale length the fretboard was made for.

Buying and installing a different fretboard is relatively inexpensive and easy, but there are only a couple sizes that are standard and readily available. Moving the keyhead assembly would be much more difficult.

Once that above issue is resolved I would rebuild the steel to the standard E9 tuning with three floor pedals and three knee levers. Your floor pedals A, B and C are fine except that you need to move the raise on the ninth string on the A pedal over so it raises the tenth string. That should be fairly easy to do. The other floor pedals can stay on the pedal bar, but get the rods out of the way. The fewer rods the easier it is to work. Reduce the clutter. Take lots of photos before disassembling things, just in case.

Regarding knee levers, on the standard E9 tuning the most important lever is one you already have; lowered strings 4 & 8 each a half tone. The location of this lever on your steel is fine. This one knee lever, in combination with the three floor pedals, enables you to make a ton of music.

The next most important knee lever IMO is raising strings 4 & 8 each a half tone. That could be located as LKL, or it could go on either of the right knee levers.

The third most useful lever IMO would lower the second string a half tone, and if possible also lower the ninth string a half tone. Once you have the first two levers located, this lever can go wherever you choose.

I wouldn't worry about the fourth knee lever at this point. Keep it simple and you increase your odds of successfully completing this project.

Good luck.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I follow what Bob is saying and all the pedals and levers make sense, EXCEPT for pedal D (4).

I plotted this out in E9, just for simplicity, and made string nine a B, and string ten an A. It gives you that dobro tuning (except in A), and it gives you an open B6th with LKR engaged. But there are no pedal changes similar to C6th changes. And pedal D (4) doesn't seem to fit. Any thoughts.

I still think Alex should goes with a simple E9 tuning. He is a rookie. Quasi-universal tunings on a primitive steel don't seem like a good idea.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

I agree with Jon. The crossbars and the pullers look BMIish; but, I doubt it was built by them.
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Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Looking at the second photo (with the red circle) I see some letters and numbers stamped into the metal. Perhaps a clue? Perhaps something already stamped into the piece of metal the builder used when fabricating the part.

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