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Topic: Most popular scale length and other questions? |
Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 31 May 2017 7:11 am |
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Curious what is the most popular string length for lap and console steels, if there is a dominant popular one?
Most popular scale length. 22.5", 24" or What?
Also seeing a some of the newer ones seem to have strings spaced wider at the nut than steels from the past. Is this also a popular trend?
Which are preferred by more non pedal steelers, Lap steels, Consoles, Weissenborn style acoustics?
Single or double necks? 6 or 8 strings?
Thanks in advance for the thoughts of steelers out there in b0bforum land.
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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C. E. Jackson
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 31 May 2017 10:50 am
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Do you mean historically or among modern builders? I think all of the Fender single necks and the vast majority of their consoles were 22.5" scale. The Valco made National/Supro/Oahu lap and consoles that I've seen are all 23" scale.
Lots of older six string lap steels had the same spacing at the bridge and nut. The narrower spacing at the nut seemed to occur for a lot of brands when they added more strings. All of the Valco made guitars I've seen are narrower at the nut though.
I'm sure that there have been a whole lot more single neck guitars built and sold through the years than consoles. Most of the consoles are 8-stringers. The only modern non-pedal console builder that I can think of is Remington.* My take is that the vintage consoles are still plentiful and cheap enough that it's hard to justify the expense of building a custom console for such a small market. That may change as more of the vintage instruments get parted out.
My observations are about electric lap steels as I don't have any experience yet with acoustics. Don't know if that helps.
Edit: *And Clinesmith, of course, where's my brain?
Last edited by Bill Sinclair on 1 Jun 2017 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony Oresteen
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 31 May 2017 12:27 pm
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The Fender Stringmasters came in three scales:
1953: 26"
1954ish & later: 24.5" & 22.5". Players complained about the 26" length so Leo made them shorter. I *think* that the most common ones were the 24.5" models.
8 string Stringmasters were by far the most popular Stringmasters.
At this point I have no favorite scale length. I am leaning towards 24.5" length.
I like the 3/8" (0.375") string spacing.
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA
Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8 |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 31 May 2017 1:08 pm
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| 22.5 inches. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 31 May 2017 7:22 pm Thanks guys for the input, More also welcome.
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Thanks guys for the input, More also welcome.
I'm thinking of building some so the feedback is useful.
My thought was that 22.5 would be good for bar slants.
Also I'm thinking I would like wide ( 5/16" to 3/8") parallel string spacing, but open to other opinions from those who have had more real experience playing none pedal steels.
Thanks again for the feed back, I am listening.  
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 6:46 am Thanks Doug...
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| I like 22 1/2". |
Thanks Doug,
I put a lot of value on your opinion.
I was leaning towards that scale for ease of the slant bar work.
Though if it is a success I would expand to some other scale/s too.
Do you have thought on string spacing for both 6 & 8 string?
I'm thinking they need to be the same or very close to the same.
While I have little experience with lap steels, I do find slant bar difficult on pedal steel in the lower register.
Best wishes,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 6:53 am
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| The longer the scale length the longer the sustain. |
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Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 7:02 am
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I only have 22.5 and below and like the 22.5 best with the side string spacing of a six string. I've never had the chance to play a longer scale though.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 7:23 am Thanks Erv
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Thanks Erv,
Never heard that before, but will keep it in mind.
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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C. E. Jackson
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 9:02 am Thanks Again.
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Thanks again Doug & C.E.
Looks like if this project gets going I'll need to offer both the long and shorter scales at some point.
Still looking for more feedback from players?
Best wishes,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 9:10 am
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Byrd maintained that the 22.5" scale was necessary for in-tune slants. It is more difficult to get slants in tune on longer scale lengths at lower frets. Sometimes, downward bar pressure needs to be added to help intonate three-string slants.
Some excellent steel players hardly ever use slants so it all depends on what you want to do and what genres you want to play. Harmonics are slightly easier to play on longer scale instruments. For electric playing, I personally prefer 22.4" scale for acoustics, it's less of an issue.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 9:15 am
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| I understand that Don Helms never used slants. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 10:21 am Bar Slants
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Hi Doug & Erv,
I knew that, but a lot of guys do use slants so that must be kept in mind to have instrument that are as salable as possible.
Thanks,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 11:14 am
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Andy,
I played a 26" scale Fender T-8 Stringmaster for years and I had no problem making slants, but then I never gave it a thought.
It's not what you've got, it's what you do with what you've got. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 6:54 pm
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| The long scale early Rick frypan certainly has a different ( better !) sound/tone than the 22.5 inch scale, like mine ! |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 11:08 pm Hummm
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Hummm, I'm getting a lot to think about now.
Thanks all.
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 2 Jun 2017 12:57 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Andy,
I played a 26" scale Fender T-8 Stringmaster for years and I had no problem making slants, but then I never gave it a thought.
It's not what you've got, it's what you do with what you've got. |
Well said Erv.
Andy, my preferences are as follows:
1. Prefer 22.5" scale length - easier for split bar slants in tune
2. tight string spacing more or less a 12 string pedal steel
3. Would prefer near parallel spacing from nut to bridge.
4. Lap steels, 8 to 12 strings, 12 strings if possible.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2017 7:37 am
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I recall a slant that Jerry Byrd used to do.
He used the rounded nose of his bar in order to get it.
He had the top two strings of the slant on the same fret and the bottom string one fret lower.
No wonder he was called the "master of touch and tone". |
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C. E. Jackson
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2017 8:18 am
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| Yes, that's the one. |
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