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Topic: Don Helms' B11th Tuning |
Keith Grubb
From:
Petaluma, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2001 8:59 pm |
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I saw on Brad's page of steel that Don Helms' uses a B11th tuning. Would anyone happen to know how he uses this tuning?
Keith |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2001 7:26 am
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At a Hank Williams Sr's show in Tampa, Fla in the middle 40's, I asked Don what tunings he was using on his double neck steel. He replied, "E13th and B11th".
I had heard of E13th. But never heard of B11th. It was not until years later I was shown what B11th was. I was a kid and knew not a note of music at the time. So the names did not have any meaning to me. Come to think about it I have NO idea why I even asked. Probably just a kid wanting to be noticed I suppose.
So I do know he used it. Where, I am not so sure. I feel confident that most of what he cut with Hank was E13th or E6th as some call it.
The Hawaiians use a lot of B11th as does JB. I could never do much with it myself. But in their hands and I am sure the hands of Don Helms it is quite a nice tuning.
In essence it is two major chords one stacked on top of the other. Like putting the IV chord above the V chord.
carl |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 19 Jun 2001 3:01 pm
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| B-11th is great for certain sounds in Hawaiian music but I have found it to be a bit restrictive. It's great if you are hung up on "SAND" and "HOW D'YA DO". Beautiful sound. But my druthers tend towards the E9th setup. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 20 Jun 2001 7:30 am
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| Keoki.....and don't forget Jerry's "Steelin' The Chimes". For a hundert years or more, I was playing it on my A6th neck and then jumping onto C6th for the second verse and back to A6th for the chimes. It worked, but now I can play the entire song on my 7-string Ric in B11th. And yes, Jerry did a lot of that old Opry stuff on his 6-string Ric. It seemed adequate long before pedals were even thought of....... For me, it's not the lap steel question but rather how long my butt can stand being draped over a Yamaha drum stool which is required so my short fat legs can dangle at the right angle to allow my feet to touch the floor so my slick Ric won't fall off my lap onto the floor. Whew! |
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Terry Huval
From:
Lafayette, Louisiana
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Posted 20 Jun 2001 7:23 pm
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Don Helms told me he could recall using the B11 tuning for a lead only on "They'll Never Take Her Love From Me" (although I find it fairly easy to copy his lead using the E6 tuning). Other than that, he said he used the B11 only on fills during various (and un-named songs). I can tell the timbre of his tone is different for some of his fills as compared to the E6 "sound", so I guess that is what he was doing.
I hope that provides some help.
Terry |
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Keith Grubb
From:
Petaluma, CA, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2001 8:59 pm
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Terry,
Would you happen to know some Hank Williams songs that Don played fills using his B11th neck? I sure appreciate everyones responses.
I have a triple neck Magnatone and I am still looking for a tuning for the neck closest to me. I've got a C6th/A7th on my middle and Helms' E13th on the far one. I was thinking of using B11th, but I haven't figured out what I can use it for yet. Thanks again all.
Keith |
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Terry Huval
From:
Lafayette, Louisiana
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Posted 22 Jun 2001 9:33 pm
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Keith,
Since I don't use the B11 tuning on my steel, I have not committed to memory which of Hank's songs Don used B11 for fills. I will listen to a few of my Hank CD's and see if I can identify some. I will share my observations on this thread. Give me a few days or so.
Terry |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2001 10:19 am
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Terry I have a 3 CD set of just about every popular recording HW ever did, and I can't recall a single place where Don was filling in with B11th.
There may have been, but my ears just don't recall it.
I will give them a listen over the next few days and see if I can hear a change in tunings during Don's back up playing.
Also, I would like to refresh my memory on the exact tune where Don took over from Jerry Byrd. I wanta say "moanin the Blues" But I am not sure. Don told me one time in Saluda, but I can't remember which tune it was that was his very first recording with Hank.
carl |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2001 10:29 am
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| Don's book of Hank Williams songs is all E6th (the top six strings of his so-called E13th). There's nothing remotely like B11th on any Hank Williams songs I've ever heard. |
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Terry Huval
From:
Lafayette, Louisiana
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Posted 23 Jun 2001 6:44 pm
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Carl and Bob,
You may be correct on Don not using B11 on the recordings. He never has been specific on which songs he may have used the B11 for fills. He just said in general that such was one of his approaches to the music. It seems I heard some of his fills that did not sound like they came from the E6 neck. I'll listen again and see if I detect anything on B11.
As far as Don's first recordings with Hank... They were January 9, 1950 when they recorded "Long Gone Lonesome Blues", "Why Don't You Love Me", "Why Should We Try Anymore" and "My Son Calls Another Man Daddy". Don said that he recorded those first 4 songs using a Fender D8. He traded the Fender for a Gibson Console Grande in early-to-mid 1950 when "Why Don't You Love Me" was on the charts.
"Moanin' the Blues" was recorded in Don's fourth session with Hank on August 31, 1950.
Terry |
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Terry Huval
From:
Lafayette, Louisiana
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Posted 24 Jun 2001 6:46 pm
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I pecked around some of my Hank CD's today and it appeared all the songs I listened to with Don Helms on steel were all played using the E6 neck, except for maybe one. On "Nobody's Lonesome For Me", the steel lead sounds like it is being played on a different tuning then E6. I know it was Don on the recording and the only alternate tuning he used was B11. My observations are also that Don's approach on this song is noticeably different than his other recordings with Hank. Hence, again fodder for guessing he is using a different tuning.
I am asking the experts with a more experienced ear then mine to share with us your thoughts.
Terry |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2001 7:18 pm
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You may be right, Terry. Compare the solos on "Nobody's Lonesome For Me" and "Moanin' The Blues". They are in the same key (G) and the mix is identical (same recording date?). "Moanin'" sounds like it's on thinner strings, and second 4 bars of "Nobody's Lonesome" has some chords that aren't typical of E13th. Very Cool.
I didn't hear the 5th on top in "Nobody's Lonesome for Me", though. That ride would have had to have started at the 22nd fret on B11th. Yikes! "Uncle Don" might have done that, though. The first part of his solo in "Hey Good Lookin'" is at the 20th fret on E13th. (I have to hold my breath to play it.  )
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
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