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Topic: Noob introduction and guitar question |
Will Lindsay
From:
Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 28 Nov 2015 8:51 pm |
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Hi all,
I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.
I've dabbled with lap steel and dobro off and on for ten years. I can play some stuff and follow tabs but I never really made it my focus. I've always wanted a pedal steel but never had the opportunity to mess with one and was put off by the cost of admission. Plus I was a fairly active musician in metal bands for several years and between touring, session work and everything else that came with being in a band, I didn't really have time to take something else on.
Anyhow, I'm not really playing in bands very actively anymore.
I went to see my friends, The Devil Makes Three play about a month ago and they had a band opening for them called The Deslondes. The next day, the steel player came up to their dressing room while we were hanging out. I complimented him on his playing and mentioned I'd wanted to get into pedal steel and he immediately offered to leave his guitar with me two days later after their last show. Less than two minutes after I met him!
I accepted and sure enough, he comes to my house and drops it off two days later on his way to the airport. He said how he has a second one and it was no rush and I could ship it back when he needed it again.
It's an Emmons student model 3x1. I've been messing around with it every day and while I'm still rough with it, I'm definitely better than I was when I got it. I found a teacher and I start lessons on Wednesday.
Within a few days of playing it, I got on the list for a Stage One. It's still a few months out. The owner of the guitar sent me a text message today saying he decided he wants to sell it and he said he would take $700 for it. If I decide not to buy it, he said I can hang onto it until I get my Stage One and then send it back to him and he will sell it for more money.
I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I like this guitar a lot, albeit it's the only one I've played. From all of the lurking I've been doing on here, the consensus seems to be that I'll want/need more levers before too long.
I definitely don't need them yet but I am making progress and most of the instructional material I've picked up requires additional levers.
I need outside input and advice. What would you do?
Thanks and sorry for the rambling introduction. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Paul Stauskas
From:
DFW, TX
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Posted 28 Nov 2015 9:25 pm
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Get the Stage One!
_________________
My site |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Nov 2015 10:14 pm
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The Stage One is the better idea, but the Emmons will have a better tone (once you get the hang of playing it: tone is the last shoe to drop).
Push-pull is harder to work on, butbut it'd only cost money to add the knees to it.
The Stage One is the smarter buy, but there is an upside to the Emmons.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 29 Nov 2015 3:47 am Re: Noob introduction and guitar question
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| Will Lindsay wrote: |
| ,,, he immediately offered to leave his guitar with me two days later after their last show. Less than two minutes after I met him! |
The steel guitar community is pretty cool, isn't it?
The Emmons' owner has made you an offer you can't refuse, it seems. May as well keep learning on one that has good tone until you buy.
Enjoyed your introduction, not too rambling at all by comparison (to mine), and you asked a good question. Keep asking, and welcome. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 29 Nov 2015 5:51 am
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Your situation is perfect. Loaner guitar in hand and new guitar on the way. This sounds like the proper path for you.
As per Lane, it really does not much matter whether you have a tone monster guitar or a 2 x 4. The ability to coax true tone out of a PSG comes from your touch and this takes time. THEN the difference can be night & day but until then it is not something to worry much about. And when that time comes, you will be able to try friends' steels and see if you want/need to upgrade. I know pros who do not hesitate to gig their Stage One.
Passing up the opportunity to buy the student model Emmons is not something to lose sleep over. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 29 Nov 2015 9:09 am
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I would also wait for the Stage One. If you ever start wanting to play stuff off of records, you will get frustrated with the lack of knee levers.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 29 Nov 2015 10:15 am
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True, but the knees are available from a handful of push-pull mechanics. I thought they're around $300 installed, so that 3&1 for $700 is, at your leisure, a 3&4 push-push-pull for $1600.
The Stage One is the smarter buy, but...
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Will Lindsay
From:
Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 29 Nov 2015 10:32 am
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| Jon Light wrote: |
As per Lane, it really does not much matter whether you have a tone monster guitar or a 2 x 4. |
Oh man, ain't it the truth right now...
| Charlie McDonald wrote: |
The steel guitar community is pretty cool, isn't it?
The Emmons' owner has made you an offer you can't refuse, it seems. May as well keep learning on one that has good tone until you buy.
Enjoyed your introduction, not too rambling at all by comparison (to mine), and you asked a good question. Keep asking, and welcome. |
Yeah. It is. It really blew me away. He didn't even leave me a way to get a hold of him when he gave it to me. Just amazing and a wonderful opportunity.
Thanks for the welcome!
| Lane Gray wrote: |
True, but the knees are available from a handful of push-pull mechanics. I thought they're around $300 installed, so that 3&1 for $700 is, at your leisure, a 3&4 push-push-pull for $1600.
The Stage One is the smarter buy, but... |
That's where my dilemma is. I gathered they can be added later and I've seen that the Emmons student models tend to be highly regarded.
There is the part of me that wants to treat this like I treat guns, motorcycles and other music gear and just buy both. Of course, I'm aware of how fortunate I am to have this dilemma as I know not many people get a situation like this. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 29 Nov 2015 10:43 am
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Well, you might enjoy taking on a 'project guitar'; some people do. But, at least to me, this is like saying you'll buy a 6-string pedal steel because at some time in the future you can change the nut and the bridge and the changer and add the other 4 strings but, until then, you'll just make do with 6 strings for now. Hey, whatever floats your boat...
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2015 10:49 am
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Never seen a Stage One, but by all accounts they are stellar.
Sure wish I would have started on a GS-10 instead of a Red Baron. Back in those prehistoric times, there were few alternatives in student model pedal steels. In retrospect, the Emmons GS-10 was probably the best of the lot.
The 1973 GS-10 I purchased a couple years ago from a member of this Forum was recently upgraded to four knee levers by one of the best in the business. It's now my go-to pedal guitar. Love my old D-10 push/pull, but the GS-10 sounds just as good, and you don't need a crane to pick it up. A properly set-up GS-10 is a wonderful little instrument.
Still, push/pulls are not for everybody. Much like bleu cheese or President Obama, people seem to either love 'em or hate 'em, with very little middle ground.
My advice would be to hold on to the Emmons until your new Stage One is delivered and decide for yourself. If you like the GS-10 better, you should be able to sell a virtually new Stage One for what you paid for it to someone who wants one right away, as opposed to getting on the list.
As Lane said, the GS-10 can always be upgraded with additional knee levers. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 29 Nov 2015 10:58 am
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If you have the funds, buy both.
Or, learn on the Emmons for awhile, and then sit behind a Stage One and see if you like its feel and tone.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 29 Nov 2015 1:13 pm
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| I started playing on an Emmons GS-10 and it was awesome! |
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Will Lindsay
From:
Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 3 Dec 2015 7:06 am
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It turns out the guy loaning me the Emmons needs to replace the transmission in his van so he needed to sell it right away.
I guess I'm gonna be the owner of two steel guitars without even really knowing how to play.
Haha. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 3 Dec 2015 8:55 am
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Where in Illinois?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Will Lindsay
From:
Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 3 Dec 2015 2:08 pm
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| I'm in Chicago. Guess I ought to update my profile info. |
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Walter Bowden
From:
Wilmington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2015 8:45 pm
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FWIW, the Emmons GS-10 seems to be a good investment at $700 based on the postings on the forum over the years.
It has the p/p sound and the pup, changer and rodding/springs/locking collars/etc. are the same as the pro Emmons p/p steels which many players consider as the best sounding steel guitar around.
They can be upgraded by adding knee levers and the going rate on those seem to be in the $200 to $300 range each when done by a good Emmons mechanic. At a minimum I would recommend 2 knee levers for raising and lowering the Es.
A LOT of gold records were recorded with 3 and 3 single neck E9th steels.
I hear the Stage Ones are also a very good steel and a lot of "bang for the buck" so you have what I might call a very attractive problem.
If you can swing it to own both you can decide for yourself what you like and dislike about both steels.
I would highly recommend you make sure the Emmons GS-10 is properly set up and that the changer is tuned by a good Emmons mechanic to appreciate the sound, tuning and pedal action. Once they are correctly set up they usually don't require much more than minor tweaking.
Keeping the same gauge of strings on either guitar will simplify minor tuning adjustments as is true for 6 string guitars, basses and so on.
You are in the right place to be here on the SGF for good advice and honest feedback so good luck and post some pics when you can.
Best wishes, Walter
_________________
Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 5:11 am
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The Emmons will increase in value, because they don't make them anymore and Emmons is a gold standard name in steels. The other guitar is an excellent entry level instrument but will not increase in value in the near term. You should play one before you buy it.
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I need an Emmons! |
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Tom Watterson
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 7:07 am
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| I'm in my first year of playing PSG, and I got a Stage One. IMO, you won't find a better steel for the price. It's hardly "entry level," as it has a full array of features, stays in tune for weeks, works flawlessly, and sounds magnificent. It's the only guitar I'll need for many years. I'm really glad I got the 3 X 4 setup; even at my rudimentary level of playing, I'm using every pedal, string, and lever it's got! |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 7:15 am
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I'd consider the GS-10 to be an excellent purchase at $700. I think Lane's estimate on 3 levers at $900 is a little high, but even at that price you'd get a fully functional Emmons with pro-grade undercarriage and changer for $1600.
Emmons S-10 guitars go for a great deal more, and the GS-10 is an excellent sounding guitar. Many think the sound is superior to a pro level PP, though each guitar is an individual of course, regardless.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Will Lindsay
From:
Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 4 Dec 2015 1:27 pm
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Right now my plan is to keep both and send the Emmons off to get a few more knee levers once I have the Stage One(and have recovered from buying two steels in the space of a few months). I already find myself wishing I could raise my Es.
From what I've gathered, I can resell either one at little to no loss and I'm actually thinking about selling off some other gear to help. I'm not really playing in metal bands anymore or touring so I don't really need five 100-150 watt tube guitar heads anymore. Plus my practice amp kind of sucks so I guess I need to buy a more steel-friendly amp. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Dec 2015 7:22 am
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If one of your big tube amps is either a Twin or Super Twin Reverb, you already HAVE one of the best steel amps made.
You can also use a "reverse slant" to raise 8. For the dominant 7th, Emmons (and others) use the slant instead of the lever.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Will Lindsay
From:
Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 7 Dec 2015 10:50 am
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I didn't even think about a slant! That makes a lot of sense.
My amps are Marshalls and Sunns. I have two of the Sunn Model Ts so one of those will probably be going on the block. |
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Will Lindsay
From:
Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 6 Jan 2016 11:56 am
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Now I have two instruments I can barely play!
The E lever on the left knee is gonna take a minute to get used to but I'm loving this Stage One.
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Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2016 5:35 pm
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notice which one your seat and volume pedal are parked under. 
Its a tough choice until you have both in front of you. Both have their charm, however.
So whats the verdict. What are your thoughts when comparing the two, besides the knee lever situation?
BTW, the Taper on that volume pedal won't give you the correct feel needed for a pedal steel. That was also my first volume pedal. Maybe yours is different but mine "jumped" in volume, rather than a gradual increase or decrease.
Your hooked now!
_________________
Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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