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Topic: Pre amp in front of a combo amp, anyone? |
Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2014 10:26 am |
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| Does anyone use a seperate pre amp ( Sarno, Stereo Steel, etc.) in front of a combo amp, using the combo as a powered speaker? Is there enough tonal change to justify it? Would a rack system be a better option? |
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George Seymour
From:
Notown, Vermont, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2014 10:51 am
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Hey Roger
George here, what are you looking to hear? I had all the preamps you've mentioned
Too many layers on what you are questioning in my book
I did try the rev into the stereo steel, no eureka moment for sure
I have a quilter, nice solid state amp..does it have the tone I really am after of my tube stuff...no, but the quilter certainly is not bad
I've got a
New tube rig being built right now that's a corker !!
I know you've been around enough to know the tone you're after
I think adding more stuff in the chain is not how is go, combo don't sound
Good with it own pre controls I'd get rid of it.
Oh my quilter is a rack rig, the head version into two telonics 15 inch
The biggest tone leap I've had is my 65 and 66 bolt on 
Ps : Fox vintage with the 15 in it is a superb tone machine |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 22 Dec 2014 11:26 am
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The quest for the Grail.
Putting other devices in front of self contained amps is hit and miss. You would need to get the output/input impedances to match going in and coming out not to mention the sound of the effect itself blending in the combination.
An effects loop built into the amp at the factory level may get you closer but not to say that the serendipitous occurrence of a preamp in front of a combo can't happen.
Unless you have unlimited access to many devices you will end up buying/borrowing/shucking until you get the right combination per your desired sound.
The people who build amps and effects for steel are studying the instrument so they would be the first look-to vs. makers of guitar and bass parts. At least they've narrowed the field of focus.
But it is a search. And what is the intended use? Sideman pad or soloist?
No matter how an instrument is defined it still needs to blend into a mix among other instruments and for the totality of the song, not just the parts, unless it's a stand alone solo piece.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Dec 2014 11:46 am
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Better to find an amp that sounds good to you than put lipstick on a pig.
_________________
Bob |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 22 Dec 2014 11:55 am
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I use a preamp in front of my combo amp in my studio. In the studio, I have a Sano tube amp equipped with Altec 418-h speakers. The unit I like to use best is a Digitech RP1000. To my ears, it really makes the amp come alive in ways that many amps can't on their own. I brings out more of a high fidelity quality and a liveliness.
I remember Ry Cooder used to use a Pignose in front of a Super Reverb. In no way is this a new technique. Ritchie Blackmore and many other guitarists stuck things like reel to reel recorders in front of their Marshalls.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2014 11:56 am
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I do that a lot using:
pickup
to Boss GX-700 efx loop send
to passive volume pedal
to Boss GX-700 efx loop return
to Peavey Vegas 400
I usually use the input on the front of the Peavey amp, because the EQ is so convenient there. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 22 Dec 2014 12:04 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
snip>
In the studio, many other guitarists stuck things like reel to reel recorders in front of their Marshalls. |
In the studio is the operative word. That is where things take on a different momentum.
Finding a combination that get you sounding good on a recording is a little different that playing live.
Some use cheap effects in front of all manner of amps while some use amps that no one would think to use as the recording is the end result.
Some use re-racked Neve and Siemens analog console channel strip preamps as their tool of choice. But it's not cheap.
Many of us grew up listening to hits made on consoles that featured these preamps and EQ's.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Charlie Thompson
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 22 Dec 2014 3:07 pm Re: V8 into a NV 400
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Buttery tone out of a Peavey.
Hootie aka Darius is on country play lists alot.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Dyke Corson
From:
Fairmount, IL USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2014 6:12 pm
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| Looks like a fun gig! Very nice Charlie! |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 6:00 am
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With the equipment I have, not enough to haul the outboard gear to a gig. I ended up making it all into a full rack setup that's rather heavy. There aren't any easy answers here.
That being said, the power amp in the rack didn't make the biggest tonal difference to the rig when compared to my NV112s. I suspect the NV112 power amp is pretty neutral. However, I experimented with several different speakers and found that they made a large difference in the sound, and looking at a frequency plot doesn't tell the whole story on an individual speaker. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 8:52 am
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| Godfrey Arthur wrote: |
In the studio is the operative word. That is where things take on a different momentum.
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Blackmore did use his Aiwa tape recorder in his live rig.
I don't know, steel players can be a little boring gear-wise.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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David Spires
From:
Millersport, OH
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Posted 24 Dec 2014 7:51 am
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Roger,
That's exactly what I do on the road... Stereo Steel Pre to 2 - Nashville 112 amps, going Power Amp in on them. It was a huge improvement to me.
David Spires
_________________
2021 MSA Legend XL 10&7; Asher Electro-Hawaiian Junior Lap Steel; '79 OMI Dobro 66 w/ Scheerhorn cone and setup; '64 Hand-wired Re-issue Fender Princeton Reverb |
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Dave O'Brien
From:
Florida and New Jersey
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Posted 3 Nov 2015 2:00 pm pre amp amp
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I'm using a Roland Mini amp into a Pignose G60VR, getting volume, tone,delay, and chorus (when wanted) from the Roland and reverb from the Piggy.
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Dave O'Brien
Emmons D-10, CMI D-10, Fender Deluxe Reverb, PV 112, Fender Pro Reverb
www.myspace.com/daveobrienband |
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Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Posted 4 Nov 2015 3:01 pm
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This old slide I took shows Emmons in 1977 with a
Furman Sound PQ3 Preamp on top of his peavey. I asked him about it and he stated he liked the better EQ of the Furman.
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 5 Nov 2015 12:16 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| Better to find an amp that sounds good to you than put lipstick on a pig. |
Bingo |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2015 1:10 pm
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| If the combo amp has an effects loop , and you plug the preamp (Sarno, etc ) into the "Return " side of the loop , you are basically bypassing the preamp section of the combo amp and using just the power amp and speakers of the combo amp ..... Plugging directly into the input of the combo amp can cause an overload problem,giving a harsh sound, and chance blowing the combo's preamp section ... As Bob H said ...Find an amp that already sounds good !!.....If you like a preamp like a Sarno pre or any other pre , then find a power amp that will suit your needs and then get the speakers that you like ....It's more work , and more money , but you can mix and match to your ears desire's ....The sky is the limit ....Ask me how I know !!....LOL !!.....JIm |
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Susan Alcorn
From:
Baltimore, MD, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2015 12:48 pm
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I've had experiences similar to Mike Neer. I think sometimes a preamp can be helpful, especially with solid state amps (thoughI use one on my tube amp when I need a little more headroom). I recently purchased a Carvin (BX700) amp which has enough volume to part your hair, but I could not dial in a tone I liked; but when I plugged an Aguilar preamp eq pedal into it, the sound was suddenly gorgeous, smooth, and nuanced. Also, when I play my Emmons p/p, I use a Peavey Nashville 112 with the same Aguilar preamp - the Aguilar brings both the Peavey and the Emmons to life; sometimes the sound is so nice I can get lost in it.
With a good tube amp, I'm more cautious about preamps because I don't want to lose that certain tube warmth/subtle growl that you get from the amp by itself.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
_________________
www.susanalcorn.net
"So this is how you swim inward. So this is how you flow outwards. So this is how you pray."
- Mary Oliver
Last edited by Susan Alcorn on 6 Nov 2015 2:48 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2015 1:56 pm
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Hi Susan,
Did you try to mimic the frequency's that the Agular preamp was producing ? ...
Bass +/- 18dB @ 40Hz
Mid +/- 17dB @ 180Hz to 1kHz
Treble +/- 18dB @ 4kHz
This is the range of the Agular pre .......Perhaps you could come close with the Carvin to get the same sound as the Agular ? .....
BTW ....I liked the features on the BX700 for a few more dollars than the BX500 too !!......Jim
That's what's so cool about having different gear ....You can mix and match and come up with some pretty incredible combinations that just work .... When you find the right combo , you end up "getting lost " in the music as you stated......Something like this will give you so much inspriation to play that you can come up with some of your best work !!......Good Luck with your venture ...Sincerely, Jim |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 7 Nov 2015 4:43 am
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| James Quackenbush wrote: |
That's what's so cool about having different gear ....You can mix and match and come up with some pretty incredible combinations that just work .... When you find the right combo , you end up "getting lost " in the music as you stated......Something like this will give you so much inspriation to play that you can come up with some of your best work !!......Good Luck with your venture ...Sincerely, Jim |
Exactly.
I like using diverse components, different pre-amps and equalizers, even effects like -reverb!- in front of a core amplifier. It's not a question of necessarily trying for a better sound, but experimenting or trying to get that sound that is in your head at that moment for that part. Or even seeing what happens if you put A with B.
This is especially true if you have a little creative latitude in a recording situation.
Sometimes people aren't trying to fix anything. They are exploring something. I always thought music was a creative venture, not a paint by the numbers deal. |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2015 6:33 am
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| "It's not about the destination , it's about the journey " |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 7 Nov 2015 7:16 am
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I've run a POD into the front of various combos. If you don't have a powerful enough rack amp or you don't have an insert point in your combo to bypass the pre or you need to consolidate your rig into as few pieces as possible or...a number of reasons/scenarios, no, you're not supposed to double preamp the signal but I have found it to work fine.
The POD actually has a selector to accommodate various insert situations from direct to power amp to combo amp. Sometimes I use their settings, sometimes not.
It's all just sound. I go by the ear, not by the book (but I do read the book). |
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Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2015 4:05 pm
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| This thread came back to life after almost a year. Here's a quick history on what has happened since then. After reading all of the input from my Forum friends and researching what equipment was available to get the tone I was looking for, I went with the Milkman Half & Half. Best decision I've made in a long time! |
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Tommy Shown
From:
Denham Springs, La.
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Posted 21 Nov 2015 9:35 pm
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| Roger, I use the Black Box with my Stereo Steel. I hook up the black Box to the steel first. Then I come out of my amp to instrument jack on my volume pedal. I use a Peavey Pro Fex. I have it hooked to the effects loop to my Stereo Steel. I The Black Box I use as a pre amp. It warms the tone up. |
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