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Topic: How much needs to be metal? |
Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 10:15 am |
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Excuse the newbie question, but how much of a pedal steel should be metal?
Before starting down this path my intial assumption was that most everything above the body was based on one long chunk of metal. I've since been disabused of that notion and now it seems that the head, neck and section around the tuner and changer can all be separate pieces of metal.
However, I've recently seen some pedal steels (can't find a pic right now) where there isn't a neck, and it's just the fretboard drawn out on wood.
What are folks expectation for which parts should be metal and how separate they should be? |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 10:25 am
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Are you asking this question because it is called a "steel guitar"? If so, be aware that the "steel" doesn't refer to the guitar at all; it refers to the steel bar that you play it with.
My apologies if you already knew this; many newcomers to the instrument don't.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 10:32 am
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I'm asking just because I had noticed different guitars built differently.
Good to know about the bar being the reason for the name. I thought it was steel because of the strings, but that just shows how green I am... |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 10:43 am
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You've got some steels--iconic ones, too, like earlier Sho-Buds, where the body is wood, the neck is wood, the changer (metal) is mounted to the cabinet on one end, the keyhead (metal) is mount to the cabinet on the other end. Other guitars have a lot more metal structure. These features unquestionably factor into the timbral signature and account for differences among steels.
| Quote: |
| how much of a pedal steel should be metal |
Pretty obviously, therefore, this is sort of a non-starter of a question. There ain't no 'should'. |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 12:14 pm
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| Karl Paulsen wrote: |
I'm asking just because I had noticed different guitars built differently.
Good to know about the bar being the reason for the name. I thought it was steel because of the strings, but that just shows how green I am... |
Actually, I thought your question had good merit. I've always just accepted the name Pedal Steel or Steel Guitar, simply because that's what everyone calls them. But, the name is actually confusing if you think about it. There's always a combination of wood, plastic, carbon fiber mixed with some sort of metal such as steel, aluminum, brass, bronze or you name it. So the name is rather confusing, but, accepted by the mass. I was told by Jeff Newman, many years ago, that, the steel bar + steel strings gave inception to the name. But, I don't really buy that. Maybe the electric slide or steel pedal or just slide guitar fits better. I prefer the pedal steel guitar though. It sounds more appropriate to me. |
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James Jacoby
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 12:47 pm
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| I've always thought the name, Steel Guitar. was for identification purposes. For example, Dobro, Lap Steel, and regular six string guitar,(played with a tubular slide), and PSG, could all, technically, be called, "slide guitars", but all have separate names, so folks will know which one you're talking about.IMO. -Jake- |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 1:51 pm
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The wood body steels, such as the maple Marlen I had, with dense (thick) wood tend to have a more mellow sound. My GFI SM-10, which has a maple die board top and aluminum everywhere wise has a brighter sound.
Would be nice is a ETS player would chime in, since they are all aluminum bodies.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 3:34 pm Re: How much needs to be metal?
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| Karl Paulsen wrote: |
| Excuse the newbie question, but how much of a pedal steel should be metal? |
Everything except the parts made from wood or plastic should be made out of metal.  |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2015 6:18 am
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Provocative subject.
What comes to mind for me is some builder should start out trying to achieve good tone first experimenting with different compositions of materials then add the mechanics. Of course this begs the question, what is good tone. It's so subjective.
Playability, weight, pitch stability, and tone all play against each other, but like any engineering problem fraught with conflicting requirements, there usually is a best solution or a even a few best solutions. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 Oct 2015 8:24 am
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| Quote: |
| What comes to mind for me is some builder should start out trying to achieve good tone first experimenting with different compositions of materials then add the mechanics. |
How much is this research and development going to affect the price of an already expensive instrument. That is the reason drug companies say they charge so much for drugs. The actual drug is not expensive, but they have to recoup their research and development costs and allow for ongoing research.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 25 Oct 2015 9:12 am
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| As some of you know, I'm thinking of building a homemade "Kline",,,,and thinking mostly wood! One reason is that I have more wood capabilities than I do metal,,,another is curiosity! There used to be a builder in my area (San Antonio) named David Parker, that built PSGs or major components for several major builders,,,,(Remington comes to mind,,,maybe Pedalmaster and GFI??),,,anyway,,he had an almost finished all wood (or 90%) sitting around his shop before he left this area,,,never saw it finished but looked very interesting. Also a lot of the older Bigsbys were basically wood,,,anyway,,,other than the "shine" factor,,,,I think a guitar could be more wood,,,I'm talking hardwoods of course. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2015 2:04 pm
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Good point Richard but I think most pedal steel makers are individauls not corporations. I'd be willing to bet the PSG makers have a year or more of development lead up that they never do, or, plan to recoup.
Drug companies on the other hand way more than recoup thier development costs. They have us over a barrel.
A large part of the drug development costs are the legal fees of getting something approved by the FDA. Ironically, the same profession that represents them for FDA approval (lawyers) is the same profession that represent folks in a class action suit when it is discovered the side affects are worse than the cure. Don't get me started. |
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Stephen Williams
From:
from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2015 2:40 pm
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I think the pedal steel community could have a lobbying arm. That way the public can pay for all the research. The law to enact would be something like "every home should have a PSG, no ifs ands or buts"
Sonny, Aluminium is pretty soft and it is not much of a stretch from wood skills. I built my first psg with a $19 drill and a hacksaw. OK I've moved on since then and now i have a $29 drill. You can do a lot with Aluminium channels, they are strong and light. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 3:58 am Re: How much needs to be metal?
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| Karl Paulsen wrote: |
| Excuse the newbie question, but how much of a pedal steel should be metal? |
All of it! 
But seriously, I've got a Carpsteel that I like very much. What makes it for me is the wood neck; kind of gives it a hybrid touch.
Too much metal might not be a good thing, but it makes the body pretty stable as far as tuning goes, and the tone is nice and clear, to me. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 7:57 am
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| The early MCI that everybody seems to be clamoring for had a welded steel body covered with mica. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 8:17 am
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So if I use a plastic bar I now own a Plastic Guitar.
Most steel guitars have very little or no steel in them including the bar. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 8:19 am
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Bo,
No, use a zirconia bar and you can play a zirconia guitar.  |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 8:32 am
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| Speaking of pedal steel misinfo somebody asked me the other day if the instrument I was playing was called a "sitar", you know a guitar you sit at. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 10:10 am
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Even the old "cabinet end" Shobuds had internal aluminum end plates;
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 12:28 pm
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That's a great picture, John. It illustrates exactly what I was about to say in answer to the original question of how much of the instrument needs to be metal, and of course the answer is everything except the body.
Of course you can make that out of whatever you like, which people have done and will continue to do. When I looked at the skills and resources I had to make mine, I ended up with a particle board deck on an aluminium frame. I was ready for it to sound dreadful, but it doesn't.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 1:22 pm
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John, That was one of the later "first" Buds, I think the absolute first ones had just a square block in each corner for the legs....(note) I've been wrong before.
BF
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 1:34 pm
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Bill,
That body is from a D-16 Shobud. I don't know when those were made.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 5:28 pm
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Erv the bodies on the mci range expanders and emci's where all 'aluminum' welded frames covered with formica.
Siera's also have alot of aluminum going on in the frames/ aprons with wood necks. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 6:22 pm Re: How much needs to be metal?
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I like Donny's answer best
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Everything except the parts made from wood or plastic should be made out of metal. |
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