8 string pedal steel

Rich Weiss · From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA

Has anyone ever made one of these? Personally, I wouldn't miss strings 9 and 10 all that much, especially if I had more spacing between the strings. In years past I went through many of Jeff Newman's tapes, and he rarely stressed strings 9 and 10.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

The first Fender PSG's were 8 stringer. So were the first Sho-Bud. They would probably still be 8 stringers if Buddy had not discovered the F# and D# (1st and 2nd strings) called "chromatic" strings.

I could not live without strings 9 and 10 on either tuning now however. Not sure many would. The 9th string dominant 7th tone (E9th) is an absolute as far as I am concerned.

If I had to go to 8 strings, It would be almost impossible to figure out what to give up. I suppose in a real drag out battle may be string 10 could go, but the other string, I just don't know. Maybe the 2nd string. Not sure.

carl

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Like Carl, I wouldn't want to play without the low 2 strings. But if I had an 8 string that could lower the high G# to F#, I think that I could get about 90% of what I do from a copedent like this:

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I wouldn't do without strings 9+10..

or 1-8

theres just too much music and too many awesome phrases down there in 9+10 land.

I'm not saying I am a master at this stuff, just that I have come to start using them for what and where they are.

it's a brave new world down there..

string 9 with the lower along with string 10 with the raise..phrased with string 7 rasie.

then we got string 10 lower..

it's just to crazy down there to leave it out !

t

Roger Shackelton · From: MINNESOTA (deceased)

The Excel Guitar Co. made a S-8 w/ 6 X 5 for a Japanese lady. Her tuning is C-6th. I believe it has a 22.5" scale length.

Roger

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey Rich, just think of all those old classic Wynn Stewart, Buck Owens, & early Merle Haggard records. They were recorded by Ralph Mooney on a Fender pedal steel with only 8 strings per neck. That stuff was wonderful and couldn't be topped with a steel with 20 strings and 20 knee levers of whatever. All in all, great music can be played on anything. It just depends on the talent and imagination of the player. Buck Owen's "Together Again" with a classic ride by Tom Brumley was played on an 8 string tuning. Have a good 'un...JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

My first steel was a Fender 400 which was set up with the chromatic strings 1 & 2 but didn't have the 7th and 9th strings. I learned a lot on it and since it was my first steel, I didn't know what could be done with those strings, I just learned other ways to get the sounds I wanted.

BTW Didn't Jimmy Day do "Steel & Strings" on an 8 string Sho Bud?

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

[This message was edited by Darvin Willhoite on 09 July 2004 at 06:07 AM.]

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

Rich - Fender made two great sounding eight string pedal steels in the 50's and 60's:

1000 - D-8 with 8 or more pedals (knee levers were not an option at that time).

400 - S-8 with 4 or more pedals.

Both of these models show up frequently on ebay and they are still inexpensive (much cheaper than the non-pedal Fenders), although I believe the prices are starting to climb. There's been lots of discussion on the Forum. If you are interested, use the search function and keyword "Fender 1000" or "Fender 400".

Amen to Jerry's comments!

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

I have and play a couple of 8-string pedal guitars: A Bigsby and a Fender 1000. Stock ABC pedals, no knee levers. I omitted the chromatic strings because I favor the low rich chords available with the lower tuning.

I have a video of me playing with James Hand on my Bigsby and until the camera cuts to me, I couldn't tell which guitar I was playing... my Emmons, my Fessy, or the Bigsby. It's a matter of note choice and bar control. Learning the instrument, in other words... which I am still trying to do, incidentally.

Buddy, Moon, and Jimmy D. played stuff on 8-string guitars that baffle players to this day with smoothness and creativity.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Justin B. French · From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA

This is a Fender, 8 string, 4 pedal steel guitar. http://www.evertize.com/sutphin/vintage.htm

Jud

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Carter D10, Fender 400
Nashville 1000, Goodrich LDR
DigiTech RP-100

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Several months ago I purchased(from ebay) a keyless Sierra Crown S8 4&4. This was a guitar that was custom built for a player who specified 8 strings with the spacing of a six string dobro. It's tuned in G6 and came with two slide in pick ups.

It's large and heavy for an S8.
I can't post photos as I'm out of town right now, but I'll try to do that next week.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I'm not a huge fan of those vintage machines. I could get behind a modern D-8, though, or even an S-8 for recording projects. The E9th I posted above and the middle 8 strings of a standard C6th would make for a very giggable D-8. Also, the Sacred Steel E7th works well on 8 strings:

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 09 July 2004 at 09:37 AM.]

Jackie Anderson · From: Scarborough, ME

I played for years with a group where the lower registers tended to be dominated by a Dreadnaught with heavy strings, so I had my S-8 Fender "special" (3+4) tuned to the top 8 strings of the modern E9, and never missed 9 or 10. Now, like Tony, I have belatedly found what nice things can be done down there. However, if I (or the people I play with) had to choose, in most group playing I would still be reasonably happy with the upper 8.

For an E9 player who has good uses for all 10 strings, it wouldn't be crazy to set up a D-8 with the higher 8 on one neck and the lower 8 -- or perhaps a Sacred Steel variant -- on the other neck. Adding knee levers to old Fenders is, of course, another well-covered topic.

Rich Weiss · From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA

Do the 8 strings have wider spacing between the strings? While I agree that many nice licks, phrases and vamps can be played with strings 9 and 10, and I use these strings alot, Jeff Newman once said, "let the bass player worry about the low notes."

[This message was edited by Rich Weiss on 09 July 2004 at 11:28 AM.]

Bryan Bradfield · From: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada.

I have a Sierra Rockslide 8 string from about 1980. The workings are Crown. It started life as an instrument to be played standing up, by rock 'n' rollers. It came with hip levers to activate the changes. The hip levers were removed, and three pedals were added to it later. I tune it to G6, with, basically, pedals 5, 6, and 7. The strings are spaced at 5/16" center-to-center at the nut, and 7/16" center-to-center at the bridge. The scale length is 24".

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Don Christiansen brought one of those Sierra Rock Slide guitars to my house once. Must have been around 1984. It was a very cool stand-up steel, and the hip levers were a lot of fun to play with.

Jussi Huhtakangas · From: Helsinki, Finland

I have no experience of the Fenders, but on the 8 string Bigsby the string spacing is wider than on a 10 string Sho Bud. I find the wider spacing more comfortable.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I can't prove it, but I believe that wider spacing sounds better, too.

Rich Weiss · From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA

Although I haven't tested my theory yet, I would guess that wider string spacing would equate to fewer clams.

Now if I could just add pedals to my 6 string Supro, that would be something.

[This message was edited by Rich Weiss on 10 July 2004 at 11:14 AM.]

Dean Parks · From: Sherman Oaks, California, USA

Hi-

I just joined the forum, and at a good time apparently (I just bought an 8-string Fender 400 on Ebay). It has 4 pedals, and no knee levers. This is my first *pedal* steel, so I'm asking for copedant advice.

So, I have now set the thing up thusly:

Low to High: E-F#-G#-B-E-G#-D#-F#

I have the 2, 3 and 4 pedal set up like the usual E9 ABC, so I guess I'll call the first pedal the "zero pedal"... is that correct syntax?

So that first pedal I now set to lower the E's to D#, which seems handy. Extra bonus in this move is that, with zero pedal held down, I get a sort of B6 lap steel tuning on strings 3 thru 8 (which I use on my Rick 6 sometimes, with a Jerry Byrd bar for slants... I like B6 (rather than C6) because the "money string" is a B, which is similar to regular guitar, which helps me navigate... and I do need the help!

Paul had suggested that pedal as rasing E's to F's, but the Fender only allows one raise and one lower per string, so if I keep the standard C-pedal (B and E raised to C# and F#), then no-go on the raise of E to F.

So what would you suggest? I've seen the idea of lowering the G#s to G, and that might be good... but, assuming no knees, how could I best get going on E9.

Harmonic priorities: majors, minors, not so much 9ths and 13ths.

Thanks in advance-
-dean- PS: apologies for no copedant layout... Tab does not seem to be working in this form.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Dean

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

'Tis true that the early 400's were single raise/single lower systems. Because you only have 4 pedals and no knee levers. I would strongly suggest the following:



    1  2  3  4





F#


D#     C#  


G#        A  


E   F        Eb


B      C#


G#        A


F#


E   F        Eb

The following is why:

1. These 4 sets of changes are the major and IMO, the absolute minimum changes necessary on a PSG.

2. The Changes on pedal 1 are used with pedal 2 a lot

3. The changes on pedal 4 are used with pedal 3 a lot.

4. Because of 2 and 3, it is considered by most to place these changes next to those changes they are used the most, next door to each other.

5. You will use pedal 1 a lot more than your pedal C. True, you will be giving up the F# minor chord. But you will gain soo much with the above 1st pedal. Since it is a sacrifce in any case. I would opt' for sacrificing the E to F# change on string 4.

Having said this, if there was any way to have at least two knee levers installed, (a number of 400's have had this done), I would ask you to consider the following:



    1  2  3  4   LKL  LKR





F#


D#     C#


G#  G     A


E            F#   F*   Eb


B      C#    C#


G#  G     A


F#


E                 F    Eb

*NOTE: I would put an adjustabe stop under the guitar on this cable to give the E to F change, since the 4th pedal E to F# change is set at the right end plate.

All Emmons' P/P's have had to do this since day one. It is not hard to do. The only drawback is you must tune the F underneath the guitar. All P/P owners do this. They call it a "half-tone" tuner.

If you were lucky enough to get 4 knee levers I would suggest the following:



    1  2  3  4  LKL  LKR  RKL  RKR





F#                         G


D#     C#*                      D


G#  G     A


E            F#  F*   Eb


B      C#    C#


G#  G     A                 


F#                         G                


E                F    Eb*       D

*Half-tone tuners

I cannot begin to tell you how good this copedent would be for you. Particularly RKR. Since you have lost a most important dominant 7th note on string 9, this setup at least partially makes up for it.

Good luck, and may Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 10 July 2004 at 07:36 PM.]

Dean Parks · From: Sherman Oaks, California, USA

Carl-

Thanks for the very thoughtful reply. I'm looking at the first suggestion (not adding knee levers yet!), and I can see there is a lot there, and I think that giving up E-F# is ok.

Carl's first suggestion:



      1   2   3   4





F#


D#      C#  


G#  F         A   Eb


E


B         C#


G#             A


F#


E     F              Eb

One question, tho. On pedal 2, the high D# moves down to C# as the B moves UP to the same C# ... what is your thinking on moving this upper D# ? My issue is that I would not want to lose that great ringing minor scale from the C# on the 5th string w pedal 2, through the upper strings... add pedal 1 and it's a major scale.

-dean-

[This message was edited by b0b on 11 July 2004 at 09:06 AM.]

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