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Topic: U-12 question |
Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 13 Mar 2015 4:47 am |
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How many U-12 players drop there 8th string to a D on the lever that lowers string 2?
With your E lower lever disengaged, use this lever in place of pedal 6, to get that big 7th chord. Seems a good way to go, and can be combined with other pedals easily, and seems to add to the "one big tuning" theory.
I seem to like it, as opposed to raising the 9th string 1 1/2 steps.
Thanks, Mike |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 13 Mar 2015 5:33 am
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I do that. Not instead of but in addition to the P6. And although I have occasional regrets, I do not raise the 9th string B>D. I fully agree that lowering 8 folds into a lot of my 'E9' playing (in quotes because I avoid thinking E9/B6 unless I am deliberately working the 6th tuning.)
BTW, my not raising the 9th string to D is mostly because I tune my 2nd string to D and the only lever I have available for the 9th string raise is a hugely important lever raising 2nd string to D#. This is used so much that is was leading to premature wear/breakage of the 9th string so I ditched the 9th string raise. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Mar 2015 8:48 am Re: U-12 question
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| Mike DiAlesandro wrote: |
How many U-12 players drop there 8th string to a D on the lever that lowers string 2?
With your E lower lever disengaged, use this lever in place of pedal 6, to get that big 7th chord. Seems a good way to go, and can be combined with other pedals easily, and seems to add to the "one big tuning" theory.
I seem to like it, as opposed to raising the 9th string 1 1/2 steps.
Thanks, Mike |
This is what I do, except that I tune the 2nd string to C # and raise it to D on that lever, and D# on another.
Using 2 knee levers instead of one necessitated having the wrist lever to lower my 5th string.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2015 12:37 pm
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I do both.... Drop 8 and raise 9. I kept the traditional P6 because I have found a lot of use for it on the Uni tuning especially for walkdown type things on the 8th string. Using the E raise and lower levers and P6, you can go from F to E to D# to D notes.
I raise 9 to D to give me the 9 8 7 strings from standard E9. I used to pull the 10th string G# up to B and the 9th string B to D on a 6th lever to give me the whole open bottom end of E9. I also used that lever to pull string 2 to C#. I'm playing a Push Pull uni now, so I lost that lever. |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 14 Mar 2015 4:33 am
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Jon, Mike and mike, thank you for the replies. Since the universal I am playing is an uncommon 6x6, this seems to be the best option for this steel. Also standard C6th P5 is next to P7, so that works. I think it is going to work out well. It has 2 LKL, that are very near in proximity to each other, I can't really understand what the original intention was. I have set the 2nd one to engage as a whole tone raise of string 4, which seems to make some sense, as the primary LKL is set as the F lever.
Here is a photo of the 4 knee setup on the left knee-
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Mar 2015 9:16 am
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Double levers can be very tricky to set up right (as it sounds like you have discovered) so that you don't activate the back lever when you are hitting the front one.
I also raise 4 E>F# on the front LKL. It was a change that I wanted. It was a fortunate accident that this works well, slightly forgiving of accidental contact with the F lever.
The inside (LKR) move, I have found, is especially difficult for a second lever due to the angle of the leg-swing.
And I also have P5 & P7 adjacent. My P6 was added on later (my original setup was the 'Larry Bell' setup that ditches P6 in lieu of a lever---get off the E lower lever, get on the E>D lever. It does not need to raise string 4 since you have come off the E lever).
I like having the redundant P6 but it is the first that can be lost if you are trying to be lean/mean and have the 8th string lower on a lever. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 14 Mar 2015 9:46 am
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that is odd to have the staggered levers so close.
course i don't know how the original guy set it up.
i'm assuming this is that pretty zum you just got.
i'd probably redo it to my own concept anyway.
i'm curious how that thing sounds...good i bet! |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 4:01 pm
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I haven't had time to figure out the double lever set-up. Hopefully I will get it together soon...
Yes, chris, this is the same Zum, it has nice sustain, and rings for a good long time.
I really like the extended chords on the lower bass strings, it really sounds much fuller than a 10 string E9th. I am very pleased with this steel, and feel lucky to have it.
Last edited by Mike DiAlesandro on 16 Mar 2015 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 6:23 pm
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The dual knee levers is not such a big deal. I have 2 LKL levers, and have no problems with them. The one closest to me, is the "2nd" lever, and it lowers my 2nd string to C#. The one closest to the front of the guitar is the one the lowers my E's. The front one touches the tip of my knee. The rear one is a few inches further back and a few inches closer to the end plate at the tuning key end. I can hit the front one with no moving, and the rear one, I just move me knee back a couple of inches.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 15 Mar 2015 8:08 pm Re: U-12 question
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| Mike DiAlesandro wrote: |
| How many U-12 players drop there 8th string to a D on the lever that lowers string 2? |
I do. |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 17 Mar 2015 4:35 pm
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Richard, I guess the 2 adjacent levers is something I will get used to in time. ( I hope!)
Hans, and others, what gauge string do you use on your 8 string lower to minimize excess travel. I like the change, but wish I could shorten the pull a bit.
Thanks for the suggestions, Mike |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 17 Mar 2015 7:13 pm
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| I use a regular .030 and haven't tried other gauges. I agree that the travel IS long and would welcome a shorter one. |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 19 Mar 2015 9:43 am
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| Quote: |
| Hans, and others, what gauge string do you use on your 8 string lower to minimize excess travel. I like the change, but wish I could shorten the pull a bit. |
I tried out different gauges today. I didn't have any gauges between .026 and .030, and between .030 and .036, though. So, I tried a .026 and a .036, expecting that the .026 would reduce travel, and the .036 would extend it. What I found was that both gauges increased the travel necessary to reach the D, the .036 more so. I did the experiment with both Jagwire and Live Steel nickel-wound strings, with the same result. The only idea that comes to me to explain this paradoxical result is that the .030 may have a ratio between the gauges of the core wire and the winding distinctly different from the ratio in the .026. If that is true, there is a slight chance that a .028 string has the same ratio as the .030, which might (should, actually) result in a shorter travel. I'll buy a .028 tomorrow and will post the result. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 19 Mar 2015 10:27 am
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I've been very nearly tempted to try Mr. Allen's (from Alaska's) approach to lower the E's all the way down to E-- (D) with a half stop at E- (D#).
If I could rig up a second lever (in my case a second RKR) that allows me to pick up that change with the feel of a separate lever...so much the better, IMO.
That said...I'm a strong believer in copedent efficiency, and I can get the same effect as that change 2 other ways, but those approaches aren't as intuitive as just continuing to move the leg in the same direction as the E lower. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 19 Mar 2015 12:34 pm
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
| I've been very nearly tempted to ..... lower the E's all the way down to E-- (D) with a half stop at E- (D#) |
That's what I do. Musically it's superb and it gets rid of P6 - getting the feel right, especially on the way back from D to D#, I haven't perfected yet. Your notion of a second lever has set me thinking.
To answer Mike's OP, I also have the B - D raise on string 9, which I combine with string 2.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 19 Mar 2015 12:52 pm
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| Hans Holzherr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Hans, and others, what gauge string do you use on your 8 string lower to minimize excess travel. I like the change, but wish I could shorten the pull a bit. |
I tried out different gauges today. I didn't have any gauges between .026 and .030, and between .030 and .036, though. So, I tried a .026 and a .036, expecting that the .026 would reduce travel, and the .036 would extend it. What I found was that both gauges increased the travel necessary to reach the D, the .036 more so. I did the experiment with both Jagwire and Live Steel nickel-wound strings, with the same result. The only idea that comes to me to explain this paradoxical result is that the .030 may have a ratio between the gauges of the core wire and the winding distinctly different from the ratio in the .026. If that is true, there is a slight chance that a .028 string has the same ratio as the .030, which might (should, actually) result in a shorter travel. I'll buy a .028 tomorrow and will post the result. |
Hans, thanks for the trial and error testing. I wouldn't have thought it would be that involved. Keep us posted. 👌 |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 4 Apr 2015 10:08 am
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| Sorry for the wait, Mike. I tried a nickel-wound .028 string today, and yes, indeed, the lever throw for reaching the D was shorter than with the .030, BUT the difference was so small-1/16" or less at the end of the lever-that unfortunately, it practically made no difference. So, the only option seems to be to use a different leverage-shorter throw but harder lever. Using a steel-wound string may shorten the throw, too, but I don't know if it would do so at the expense of the lever softness or not. |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 4 Apr 2015 1:01 pm
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| Thanks Hans, I guess we have to pay the piper one way or another. 😙 |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2015 1:52 pm
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When I played Uni:
| Tab: |
LKL LKR RKL
D# -D , --C#
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E +F -D# (E) , +F (E with LKR)
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E +F -D# (E) , --D
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E +F
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Raising high E to F with RKL added useful chords that I couldn't get any other way (e.g. Bb7+9, E13-9). It is useful both with and without LKR.
IMO if you don't raise high E to F then you lose those chords, while gaining very little (you lose D# C# B together which is nice to have). The combination you gain with RKL + LKR gives D on the middle E and D# on the high E, an augmented octave, which is useless unless you are Aaron Copland (ick). |
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