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Topic: Don't like neo speakers |
Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 1:10 pm |
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Is it just me, or are there others that just find something lacking in neodymium speakers?
I've tried 2 such speakers, both from highly regarded companies, and they both lasted less than a week before they were swapped out for Blackwidows.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 1:55 pm
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So what are you hearing or not hearing that you dislike?
_________________
Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 2:03 pm
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Lack of definition and clarity in the lower register.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 2:14 pm
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Interesting because I hear the exact opposite.I used to play through a Peavey 1000 which to my ears had somewhat harsh highs,nasal mids and a slightly muddy undefined low end.
I purchased the Quilter Combo and the clarity is 180 degrees in the opposite direction. This amp seems to cut through the mix much better than amps I've used in the past.
The Quilter is the first amp I've ever had with Neo's.
_________________
Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 3:17 pm
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| Swapped both my factory BW 15 inch magnets for Neo ones. Same tone, much lighter to haul |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 3:33 pm Re: Don't like neo speakers
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| Paul Sutherland wrote: |
Is it just me, or are there others that just find something lacking in neodymium speakers?
I've tried 2 such speakers, both from highly regarded companies, and they both lasted less than a week before they were swapped out for Blackwidows. |
I wanted to like them also but I don't. The mids are jumbled up sounding to me. With the R and D going on I figure somebody will make one I like someday though.
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Bob |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 3:55 pm
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One thing I've learned about speakers and especially with high-powered NEO's is that they take quite a bit of time to open up, to break-in. New cones are STIFF and they sound bright and thin compared to how they'll sound once they open up. One of the major changes that happens to a speaker over time is that the high end softens and becomes more harmonically rich and interesting. The other major change is that the bass, mid-bass, and upper bass all get bigger, warmer, fuller. The midrange also becomes a bit more deep and complex.
So I never judge a speaker before it's had a few dozen hours of play time. Out of the box, most speakers are harsh and hard sounding, and especially with high-powered Neo types.
B |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 4:18 pm
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| How would the sound depend on the material that the magnet is made of? It seems to me that sound depends on other things (moving parts). |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 4:28 pm
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There seems to be a significant difference betwern ceramic and alnico magnets...even with the same cones. The difference between a Celestion Blue and a Greenback or Blackback perhaps.
Even with the same base magnetic flux with a speaker at stationary position..its almost as if a given metallurgy has its own frequency dependent flux ....eg. analogous to reactance vs. Resistance in electrical theory. |
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 4:44 pm
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| Brad Sarno wrote: |
One thing I've learned about speakers and especially with high-powered NEO's is that they take quite a bit of time to open up, to break-in.
B |
This. I noticed this with a recently purchased EPS-15c. After hearing all the acclaim for this speaker, I was underwhelmed...in fact, initially it had a mid-range honk that was hard to tame. After a few gigs, it opened up nicely. Based on this experience, I'm inclined to agree with Brad. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jim Priebe
From:
Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 5:55 pm
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I agree with Brad and Earnest.
The moving part/s are the cone, the surround and the voice coil. The static part is the magnet - so why blame the magnet only ?
I have used these for quite a while and they definitely take quite a while for the cone/surround mount to optimise. You need to play them at higher volumes a fair bit to settle them in too. Less than a week is definitely not long enough. But this goes for all speakers and making an initial or hasty judgement on them is a mistake IMHO. BW's certainly don't change much over time because their cones and mounts just don't soften - they start hard and finish hard. That's why they stand such a flogging 
_________________
Priebs GFI ('09)Short-Uni10. GFI ('96)Short-Uni SD11. ('86)JEM U12
www.steelguitardownunder.com |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 7:06 pm
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| I worked in R&D for a speaker company. You may not like the voice of any neo you've heard but the fact that they're neo means nothing in that regard. And if you made the call on a speaker in less than a week you never heard what the speaker was actually going to sound like. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 7:16 pm
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OK guys; patience has never been one of my virtues. I can put the neo back in and try it for awhile, but how long?
PS: I just got done playing the amp with the Blackwidow, and it sounds incredible.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 8:03 pm
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The boutique speaker manufacturer I used for my rock gear recommended 30 hours at stage volume for break in for the speakers he manufactured. He also offered a break in service for a small fee.
He also sold alnico and ceramic magnet options for the same cone and coil builds. He said they sounded different..i thought so too...ymmv..but yes..of course tone comes from the many very different parts of any design..and doping...type of paper...weight of voicecoil..dimensions of cabinet and design...lots of stuff going on for sure...and most importantly...all the parts need to work together well...that last part is the biggest factor in finding tone...imo.
That said...rock guitar speakers are often run pretty hard and non linearities are more likely to occur at those extremes compared to 300W speakers run at 10 percent.. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 8:26 pm
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FWIW, I have a 15" Neo in a Telonics (of course), but also a 12" in a NV112. The NV112 improved dramatically with the Neo, gave it a JBL-like tone and cut back on the Peavey mid-range honk. It's been in the amp for two years.
I also got a used 15" Neo recently from Danny Hawk and put it in an LTD 400 and it too hit the mark for me. So it's all a subjective thing. Maybe I just don't like Black Widows anymore.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 8:49 pm
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New issue, but related:
If you have to push the speaker fairly hard to break it in, is it possible to break in a Telonics that is rated for 250 watts RMS using a 40 watt tube amp, a Milkman Mini? I don't have the patience to wait years before this speaker sounds good.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 9:10 pm
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I seem to recall Dave telling me that the Telonics speakers were "broken in" there before they shipped them.
Am I dreaming this up?
Mine sounds just like it did new. I've played over it a Bunch.
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Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 9:43 pm
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I have a SICA neo-dyn 15" in a Super Twin that sounds fine. I bought it used on the forum from Tommy Butler who had Ken Fox work his magic on it. Its been well broken in at this point.
You don't actually have to play (or even be around) while your new speaker breaks in. Just plug some music into it, turn it up, and go fishing for the weekend. A few days later, its done!
Last edited by Clete Ritta on 28 Jan 2015 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Priebe
From:
Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 9:44 pm
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Paul - the amp wattage is not an issue really. You just need to exercise the surround mount material mainly to loosen it up. Louder will just exercise it harder and might speed up the process a bit.
You could hook a looper up to your amp and let it run for two days but first warn the neighbours -   then 'go fishin' for a day or so.
Clete beat me by a minute - Doh!
_________________
Priebs GFI ('09)Short-Uni10. GFI ('96)Short-Uni SD11. ('86)JEM U12
www.steelguitardownunder.com |
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Patrick Ickes
From:
Upper Lake, CA USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2015 10:07 pm
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I just installed a Telonics neo15-4 in my Vibroverb to replace a JBL E130-4 because of fitment issues. Granted it was a week between playing the amp, but I have no complaints on the Telonics at all. Every bit as awesome as the JBL.
Their website states that each speaker is "broken in" prior to shipping, so what you get is what it should be down the road.
I see you're looking for a JBL D130-4. I've been considering the same speaker, but have determined that to find an original coned D130 that still works is nearly impossible/affordable, and they only handle 60+/- watts? Most have been reconed with a paper formula that doesn't produce the same sound... so D130s tend to sound like my E130, which sounds like my Telonics NEO.
Are you looking to replace the speaker in you Milkman Mini??? Because, maybe it's the amp you don't like???
You're welcome to borrow my E130-4.
Patrick |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 29 Jan 2015 12:29 am
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Thanks for the offer Patrick but I really want to try a D130f or K130 in the Milkman. I have a K130-4 ohm in my Twin. I may just pull it out and try it in the Mini.
From what I see online, the E130 is noticeably heavier than the K130 (22.5 pounds versus 15.5 pounds). I understand the K130 has an alnico magnet (like the D130 series), whereas the E130 appears to be ceramic. The E130 takes more power, but I'm only dealing with a 40 watt amp, so that's not important to me.
I love the Milkman Mini with the Blackwidow. It's a great sounding amp, but not meant for high volume gigs. I'm just trying to wring every last ounce of tone out of the set-up. I like the idea of a D130F in this amp. Sort of a nostalgia thing I suppose.
PS: If the Telonics has already been conditioned from the factory, then it's for sale.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 29 Jan 2015 12:52 am
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I absolutely gave the neo's I have used plenty of break in time. I have owned and used Telonics, Sica and neo made to TC Furlong's specs. The only ones I liked were the TC Furlong ones.
I don't think the problem is the magnet. I think neo's could sound perfect if they get it together. My impression is that the speakers made to handle power. So there is way more copper wire in the coil. The sound reminded me of over wound pickups. They look good on paper but don't sound clear and deep. The voice coil sounds like its fighting itself and gunking up the mids. The highs are audible but don't shimmer. They sound forced somehow. The lows sound thunky instead of full and focused.
I'm looking forward to the neo Peavey is working now modeled on the old Black Widow 12's.
I would be happy to hear a neo speaker that works for me. I'm lugging around old JBLs feeling like an idiot until I start playing. It so sounds freakin awesome I am a happy camper. After the gig I get to feel like an idiot again while I load out.
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Bob |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 29 Jan 2015 3:26 am
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When I tested the Eminence EPS-15C speaker, new, my first impression was that it reminded me of a JBL.
I have one of the prototypes that was sent to me for "field testing". I don't know if its different or identical to the production models. However, I suspect it was at least broken in before it was sent to me as I haven't noticed much difference after two years of use.
I recently bought a Carvin BX500 amp, that has a 12AX7 tube in it, and the amp and the Eminence EPS-15C together remind me of the Twin Reverb I had with a JBL K-130. This combination is not a "Twin Reverb" but close. |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 29 Jan 2015 6:05 am
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| Justin Griffith wrote: |
I seem to recall Dave telling me that the Telonics speakers were "broken in" there before they shipped them.
Am I dreaming this up?
Mine sounds just like it did new. I've played over it a Bunch. |
No...you're not dreaming this up. My 12" and 15" were also great right outta the box...and still are a year later. |
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