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Topic: Trick to Holding Onto Round Bar? |
Steve Hogge
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 11:55 am |
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This is my first day of posting, and I already have a question.
My lap steel showed up yesterday, and I was using a dobro (Lap Dawg) bar to play it at first. Today I received a round bullet bar (Dunlop S919). The round bar has no recesses cut into it to make it easy to lift. Are there any tricks to hanging onto it? It looks like it has to be really clean. I was considering applying rosin to the parts of my thumb and finger that grip it.
Also wondering: what is the advantage to a cylindrical bar? I can see how the rounded end helps you move around, but the round cross-section's purpose is not obvious to me. |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 12:33 pm
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if you put rosin on your hands, it will transfer to the bar - if it transfers to the bar it will then get in the grooves of your strings - then you will have a bigger problem than holding the bar...
you just have to start using it - and yes, you will drop it a 100 times and it will be slipping out of your hands all over the strings, on the floor, etc, etc...then one day, it will fell as a natural part of your hand and you wont even notice it there.
the way i did it was to lay it on a table then pick it up - do that again x100. i did that every day for a long time - worked for me.
you can use the indented bar - i think for the average beginner who just wants to play right away, that is fine. there are enough pros & cons to each design.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Steve Hogge
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 12:34 pm
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| Thanks. I guess I'll get used to it. |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 1:07 pm
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I played with a Shubb SP2 bullet nosed "grip" type bar for the first 8 months or so, (still do sometimes), and recently started using the bullet bar. Most likely once you get used to it you will like it better for slants which is important if you are playing C6. I've seen some lessons that recommended getting over a soft surface like a bed or upholstered furniture and practice holding the bar and turning it over, learning not to drop it. Ah, I just looked at the linked post above and see that is exactly what he is suggesting as well.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 1:19 pm
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Normal steel playing doesn't require much to any lifting of the bar completely off the strings, is this what you actually want to do?
Lifting the tail for single note runs doesn't require the indent, but is important for slants, so it seems you need proper guidance on the true fundamentals of classic steel guitar, unless you're after something uniquely your own, then you'll have to mostly hoe your own row.
The round bar helps greatly in maneuvering, slants and runs etc., you'll get way further with a bullet in normal steel playing. And the round end makes string shifts and basically everything better.
But a clean bar and the right mix of dry and dampness for the bar hand is all I came up with at the start, then after that it doesn't play much of a role since handling properly will be natural and immediate. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 1:24 pm
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| Have you seen people spit on their hands when grabbing an axe,,,or hammer,,,,or when embarking on a difficult task?,,,,,,,,it also helps hold that steel bar,,,,,makes them just a tiny bit sticky,,,,,not much,,,,just a little,,, |
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Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 1:30 pm
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I've also noticed that I have problems holding the bar when I just started playing and it is cold...warm it up in your hands a few minutes before playing.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
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Steve Hogge
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 1:43 pm
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| Ron Whitfield wrote: |
Normal steel playing doesn't require much to any lifting of the bar completely off the strings, is this what you actually want to do?
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Mainly I am interested in not having it drop onto the guitar and bang the paint off when I lift the near end.
I am studying these suggestions and will apply them assiduously, except for that spit thing. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 2:15 pm
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| Steve Hogge wrote: |
| Mainly I am interested in not having it drop onto the guitar and bang the paint off when I lift the near end. |
That should easily resolve itself with a proper grip, if you don't have it held right all bets are off. I cover basics like this on my site, link is in my sig.
And don't dis the spit, it works fine.
Good luck, have fun. |
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Tom Snook
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 3:27 pm
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When I first started playing steel,I used to carry my bar where ever I went.Hold it while you watch TV etc...They take getting used to.
_________________
I wanna go back to my little grass shack........ |
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Adam Nero
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 4:11 pm
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I disagree with the axiom some propose, that lifting the steel off the guitar is generally inadvisable in lap/nonpedal playing. I see many accomplished players do this.
That said, consider the size of your bullet bar. Larger pedal steel sizes are a little harder to manage although I've heard that some like them just fine.
I find the Dunlop 918 tone bar to be just perfect for lap/nonpedal playing. Very agile but nice and heavy. |
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Steve Hogge
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 6:07 pm
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One of the instructional videos I have shows the near end of the bar coming up as the teacher hits notes on the higher strings. Is that unusual?
I intended to order the 918, but I clicked the wrong product! |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 6:17 pm
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I find that pushing down on the far end of the bar pops the near end up... you can grab it better then. You can also push the bar off the first string or pull it toward you off the last string to get an angle on it and lift it.
I use a lighter bar, the Paloma stone bar... it's seriously lighter and larger, much easier to pick up. You'll notice some loss of sustain on the lower strings, and you may have to press down a little more. And they do break if you drop them on concrete! But at $20 per, no big loss... buy several when you order. I have an 80-odd year old friend who couldn't play otherwise... it's that much easier to handle.
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 6:33 pm
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| Adam Nero wrote: |
| I disagree that lifting the steel off the guitar is generally inadvisable in playing. I see many accomplished players do this. |
But you also see it so often being pointless and just something they do without any actual function or merit, otherwise known as a bad habit. What would be the reasoning for doing it a lot or merely when not necessary?
It's another example of why I say every steel player in history, today, or the future would have benefitted by sitting with Jerry Byrd for just one hour, if they were willing to do as he instructed. There would be very little lifting of the bar ever seen in standard style steel guitar playing. Jerry did it, but only when needed. |
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Adam Nero
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 7:07 pm
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| Ron Whitfield wrote: |
| Adam Nero wrote: |
| I disagree that lifting the steel off the guitar is generally inadvisable in playing. I see many accomplished players do this. |
But you also see it so often being pointless and just something they do without any actual function or merit, otherwise known as a bad habit. What would be the reasoning for doing it a lot or merely when not necessary?
It's another example of why I say every steel player in history, today, or the future would have benefitted by sitting with Jerry Byrd for just one hour, if they were willing to do as he instructed. There would be very little lifting of the bar ever seen in standard style steel guitar playing. Jerry did it, but only when needed. |
Like anything else, it can be done well or not. All I said is some treat it as an absolute and sacred ban where it shouldn't be. |
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Steve Hogge
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 7:32 pm
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This is all interesting.
I was referring to a Troy Brenningmeyer video. He uses a Scheerhorn dobro bar, and he lifts the back end when playing notes on the high strings. After watching him, I just assumed lifting was standard practice.
I'm wondering if the bar I got is too short. I should have paid more attention when I ordered it. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 7:40 pm
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| Adam Nero wrote: |
I disagree with the axiom some propose, that lifting the steel off the guitar is generally inadvisable in lap/nonpedal playing.
I see many accomplished players do this. |
"All I said is some treat it as an absolute and sacred ban where it shouldn't be"
That's a bit at odds with what you actually said, but no biggie as of course anybody can do whatever they want, but we were talking about standard style steel playing and there are many decades old pro proven methods that counter the 'do whatever you want' method in their effectiveness and economy of movement, at least for the vast majority of steelers.
If they are pro's then they probably are doing it well, and in their own ways, bad habits be damned. |
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Paul Arntson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 7:55 pm
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I found after I dinged up the fretboards on a couple really nice steels that it became a lot easier to hang on to the bar...
_________________
Excel D10 8&4, Supro 8, Regal resonator, Peavey Powerslide, homemade lap 12(a work in progress) |
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Paul DiMaggio
From:
Fort Nelson, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 3:42 am
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| There is a good example of lifting a bullet bar in the "I'll Fly Away" video posted by Doug Beaumier. Carry the bar when your not playing, get used to it being in your hand, you can practise slant technique at the same time. It is a learning phase everybody goes thru. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 4:07 am
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Find a bar that fits your hand perfectly.
After you start to get the hang of it, you may come to realize that you're not really holding the bar as much as you think, but rather guiding it by keeping downward pressure on it and easing up when moving it around.
Also, try to keep the bar in a straight line as you move it, using your arm to move the bar rather than flexing your wrist.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 5:39 am
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| A little spit goes a long ways,,,,,,just a little "sticky",,,,keeps finger picks on,,,,,helps hold the bar,,,,,don't knock it til you try it,,,, |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 5:54 am
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Like a flat pick or a screwdriver, IMO, the real answer is you need to use this tool for hours and hours until it just becomes a part of you and you don't ever even need to think much about it. Time on the instrument; time with the bullet bar.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Jana Lockaby
From:
Kaufman, TX
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 7:17 am
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When I began playing dobro, my instructor, a steel player, started me with a bullet bar. I experimented with the usual dobro steels, but found them uncomfortable, and awkward. It took some time, and I went through a lot of bullet bars, before I found one that fit. I use a Tribatone bar. It doesn't slip and no spit is necessary. I'm not sure they are available anymore.
I've recently begun using a lap dog, for one of my dobros, because I like the tone I'm getting with it. I had to wonder if there was some trick, or something I was missing, because it feels so awkward to me, doesn't fit well in my little hand, and makes my hand hurt after a while. I have to be doing something wrong? There seems to be so much more freedom with the bullet bar. With the absence of the rounded nose, I keep getting it caught in the strings. Hammer ons, and pull offs, are supposed to be easier with these lap dog bars. I think not. In the end, I'm thinking, it's all in what you get accustomed to using, and it seems to me, the answer to evvery trick, tip, and question, is, really, just practice, practice, and more practice. You will get used to it, in time.
I have a large collection of bars, that I've tried over the years, and here's what I found: the bigger the bullet bar, the easier it is to hold on to, and the bigger the ding when you drop it. Motivation to hold on? |
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Adam Nero
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 7:28 am
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| Ron Whitfield wrote: |
| Adam Nero wrote: |
I disagree with the axiom some propose, that lifting the steel off the guitar is generally inadvisable in lap/nonpedal playing.
I see many accomplished players do this. |
"All I said is some treat it as an absolute and sacred ban where it shouldn't be"
That's a bit at odds with what you actually said, but no biggie |
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