Delay and reverb

Jack Hargraves · From: Missouri, USA

Do some of you, or all of you use a digital delay along with the amp's reverb? If so, what is the best or correct way to do this?
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GFI Expo SD10, Nashville 112, Steelers choice Pak-a- seat, Carter vol. pedal, Stage one vol. pedal, Peavey Deltafex. Goodrich volume pedal.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

When I play through a combo amp, I usually use a delay in addition to the amp's reverb. A Boss DD-2 or a DD-3 are good units. I put the delay after the foot volume and before the amp input.

Jack Hargraves · From: Missouri, USA

Thanks, Erv, That's what I've been doing, but Others have told me that was wrong. I'm going to keep doing it the way you said.
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GFI Expo SD10, Nashville 112, Steelers choice Pak-a- seat, Carter vol. pedal, Stage one vol. pedal, Peavey Deltafex. Goodrich volume pedal.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Jack,
There is no right or wrong, it's just whatever works! Whoa!

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

You're doing just fine, Jack, the world is full of "expert opinions" with little or no basis in actual fact.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Putting the delay before or after the pedal will change the effect it has, mostly subtly. I prefer everything except reverb before the pedal. But I gave my DD3 back to my guitar player after three weeks. I didn't feel it made a meaningful contribution: an opinion reinforced each time I hear it on a steel.
You hit a note, either squeeze a pedal or move a bar, and BAM!! Here's the OLD pitch, the one you just left, tapping on ywr eardrum.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Emmons likes it. Green doesn't. Some use both. So,??
Whatever tickles your noodle.
Use it with taste, where it sounds the best to you. Experiment.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I prefer just a little "slap back" delay. Nothing too radical.

Jack Hargraves · From: Missouri, USA

Thanks for all your comments. I feel better now. Jack
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GFI Expo SD10, Nashville 112, Steelers choice Pak-a- seat, Carter vol. pedal, Stage one vol. pedal, Peavey Deltafex. Goodrich volume pedal.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

A couple people wanted me to explain myself on my objection to such a common effect.
Basically, it comes down to how most people use it: a fairly close single slap on uptempo stuff (which I'm fine with), and then widening on ballads to numbers north of 160ms.
HERE'S where I call yuk.
On ballads, one of the prettiest features of the Redneck Table Harp is the ability of us to do smooth bends in differing degrees and even directions. Makes for outstanding backup and solos (witness Paul and Vince on Together Again). Now you hit, f'rinstance, strings 5 and 3 with the B pedal, and start SQUEEEEEZING in the A pedal, then a fifth of a second later, BAM. you get hit in the ear with the tones you DID play, but clash with what you ARE playing, and the clash of the microtones will continue til 200 ms after you get where you're going.
IMO, this NUKES the subtlety and the only way to address it is to strike long portamenti (slides or pedal squeezes) from your vocabulary, getting all moves done before the slapback hits.
Unless you're after a Witches Brew kinda thing, I remain convinced that ANY delay beyond 60-80ms MAY fatten the sound, but at a cost in purty. Never yet heard it on a ballad where it wouldn't have sounded sweeter without it.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Brett Lanier · From: Madison, TN

I totally hear ya Lane, and mostly agree. In a more ambient setting, I like to occasionally use the delay in a different way. I'll set the level and repeats way up (like 3/4 way open) then hit a chord ( let's say an 8,6,5 triad) and slide the bar up the neck while very slowly increasing the time knob with my right hand. It creates a very cool lifting effect.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I was first curious about delay after watching Buddy adjust an echoplex while I sat about 20 feet in front of him in a small conference room in about 1975. He set it somewhere around 300ms. The first repeat was about 1/2 the volume of the original note. A second and third repeat followed, again with half the volume of the preceding repeat. However, the 3rd repeat was very faint. I'm not sure if he used reverb? As I recall, I don't think there was reverb. I duplicated his setting as near as I could and used it for years. I still use it digitally, but tail it with some digital reverb. The reverb will hide some of the 2nd and 3rd delay repeats. But, it's there.
Sometimes, I skip the delay and use about 50ms of pre-delay setting on the reverb, which makes the pick attack more dominate and chords not buried in the reverb. So, 50ms of pure dry note before the reverb tail. In this situation, I add some soft compression before the reverb for a little more punch of the notes and blend of the chords.
Then, the ambience of the room decides how much.
Experiment, but don't hide your picking behind over-indulgence of effect and sound like you're deep in the well. Yet, don't sound flat or dry.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

I have used a little delay along with reverb for many, many years. I used an RV-3 for the last several years, set on #7, which is both reverb and delay. HOWEVER....I am not using any delay any more or any amp reverb.

I bought a Wet Reverb a couple of weeks ago and to my ears, it sounds so good, it doesn't need anything getting in it's way. The way I have it set, if I thumb rake my strings, immediately killing the strings with the edge of my hand, I hear a slight bit of a tail on the reverb. This little tale takes the place of delay to my ears.

Along with the Wet Reverb, I tried some delay only from the RV-3, but it just degraded my sound from the Wet Reverb. I have had Lexicon reverbs, including the MPX-1 programmed with John Hughey's and Larry Sasser's settings. This little Web Reverb stomp box blows the Lexicon away. Strickly my opinion. Other's may hear differently.

To answer your question, in a round about way, I think most people use a little delay. The trick is to get the slapback time set right and the dry/wet mix right and as little reverb as you can get by with. Paul Franklin covered this in one of his early cassette courses that dealt with effects. I don't know if it is still available or not.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

lane..you must be setting your delay wrong or something. i won't play without one. i don't hear repeating tone/pitch things. set it very subtly, use a good quality delay...and i'm not talking expensive. i use an old ibanez digital modulation delay pedal (DML10). it just fattens and sweetens the smoothness, gives it depth. always use it 'before' the volume pedal. that way it is never 'banging' around after you pull back on the vp.

i use to like the old purple analog delay but the digital is so clear i never would now. and actually, brands do matter. i don't like the boss delay tone nearly as much.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

This is a very good delay unit:

Gary Reed · Posted 17 Jan 2014 8:15 pm

George,
Did you buy the mono or stereo Wet reverb pedal?
What company did you purchase it from?
Doesn't seem to be companies discounting the mfg. price.

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Every so often we play an outdoor event. When we do, I use just a tiny, tad of delay (with reverb), at about 200ms, one repeat. To my ears, it seems to emulate a good size room. I'll also do that in a dead-sounding room that has lots of drapes, carpeting, and people.
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Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande

There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.

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Bryant Aycock · From: Pikeville, North Carolina

I play a Super-Pro into a Carbon Copy Delay for just a little "slap-back". Then to a Nashville 400 and sweeten it with a little reverb from the amp. Too much of either sounds cheap to me. You just have to see what sounds best to you. You'll know when you find it.

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Gary, I ordered my Wet Reverb direct from the manufacturer, Neunaber Technology, located in CA. They take PayPal and ship the next business day via first class mail. Really quick service.

I got the Mono, mostly because it only has two controls. The depth and the mix. Plus, I don't run two amps and have no need for a stereo version which has about 5 control knobs on it. I just like to keep things as simple as possible.

If you order one and don't like it, I will eat my hat, that is, if I had one. It is the best and most natural sounding reverb unit that I have ever heard. I have not heard everything out there, but for the price, you sure can't go wrong with the Wet Reverb.

Cartwright Thompson · Posted 22 Jan 2014 3:22 am

Actually the stereo version only has one more knob than the mono. It is a tone control and it's kind of nice to have. The cool thing about the stereo Wet (or any Neunaber three knob pedal) is that you can turn it into any of the other pedals they make by downloading the firmware. I have no use for chorus but their delay (Echelon Echo) looks like it might be cool.
That being said, I like the sound of the mono a little more than the stereo.

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