Amplification

Daniel McCombe · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I was wondering if my GFI Expo will sound THAT much different through a pedal steel amp like the Peavey Nashville, than through my tube guitar amp. Im playing through a Mesa Nombad 55 and the guitar is very dull sounding. I have a Almnitone Pu in it, and cant get a tone even close to some of the clips I see of other guitars, GFIs included.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

It will help.
What are your current settings on your amp?
Most importantly, are you picking with your fingers set on Kill, not Stun? Tentative fingers are the average n00b's biggest tonekiller.
Try using this procedure in the second post here to perhaps dial in your boogie. I've usually gotten acceptable tone from the two Mesas I've played thru.
Hint: run the clean channel.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=223731
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Marvin Born · From: Ohio, USA

David

I send you an e-mail, with some ideas.

Marvin

Daniel Policarpo · Posted 12 Sep 2013 10:53 am

Hi Daniel,
How's your volume pedal working in your signal? Have you compared the signal with and without it? I don't have the most expensive volume pedal in the world, but I really liked the feel and throw. Trying a buffer opened it right up for me, where before there was a wet blanket on the sound, no matter what amp I was using.

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Alumitones can sound dark....but I echo the post about a buffer - if you are using a pot pedal for a volume pedal, it will steal the highs if first in the chain, so put a tuner pedal or something in first. Some folks like that dark sound, but you can get more highs if the pickup doesn't see the pot first in the chain
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Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If the Mesa is tubes, the buffer MIGHT work better coming out of the pedal. That's where it makes the most difference with my twin.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tommy Boswell · From: Virginia, USA

Here's what brightened up my tone:
1. Single coil pickup
2. George-L cables
3. Li'l Izzy

Each piece made a contribution. I used to think tone was all in the amplifier. I was wrong.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Sounds like the volume pedal wires are reversed, to me. Oh Well

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

The Alumitone pickup is very different from other steel guitar pickups. Try another steel guitar through your amp to determine if it's the amp or the pickup that's causing the problem.
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Jim Priebe · From: Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.

I doubt that it's the Pup. Alumitones have a relatively flat response right through the frequency range unlike most single coils or humbuckers which are tailored to suit various sound tastes. So if you have the EQ on the amp or somewhere in your system they will respond to that well but some of those guitar valve amps with passive EQ don't actually do much as their design target is not about pedal steel.
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Priebs GFI ('09)Short-Uni10. GFI ('96)Short-Uni SD11. ('86)JEM U12
www.steelguitardownunder.com

Daniel McCombe · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Thanks for all the help. I did put a tuner in front of the vp and it seemed to help a bit. Im using a good compressor to try to get some more out of it. I think Im just dreaming about that bright sparkly sound that other builders seem to produce. Mechanically the GFI is great.

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I had an alumitone in a GFI and had to switch to get it to sparkle....back then, I went for a Trutone (would go for a Telonics 84 now). Although they are "neutral", that came out as "dark" for me, at least on the GFI....
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https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

I'd lose the alumitone

I tried one, and it is definitely the piece in the puzzle that will make you question your tone. I couldn't find an EQ setting or amp that it worked well with mine - replaced it with a Tonealigner and now that same steel sounds great out of all my amps
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Milkmansound.com

Jim Priebe · From: Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.

Daniel

I hope your amp is a Mesa Nomad 55 and not the "Nombad" as you mentioned !
Does it have 6L6's in it? they can be EL84's which would probably be less bright. There is a bias switch on them - is it set correctly?
If it has the normal Celestion 90 speaker/s in it then they are probably not going to 'sparkle' for pedal steel - there is a difference between sharp treble and sparkle and it's about high harmonic frequencies.
I always find the speaker is crucial. Back when Mesa put EV's (as an option) in they would but the Celestions are there for guitarists (and the $$$'s).
As I mentioned single coils and most humbuckers are made to have a certain sound - that's why Steve loves his Telonics xx (he may not like the Telonics yy).
If you have to go to a compressor then I feel you have a problem especially on a valve amp.
Some guitars are just doughy - they just don't have any sparkle harmonics and their owners love them 'cos that's what they want. If you try the steel guitar direct into the amp (no Volume pedal or anything else) you can test just what the amp, guitar and speaker are capable of in themselves - often it is not very exciting but it is the basic potential from where you can work by adding into the input chain.
Then there's the picks, technique, experience etc. etc. Smile

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Priebs GFI ('09)Short-Uni10. GFI ('96)Short-Uni SD11. ('86)JEM U12
www.steelguitardownunder.com

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

My Carter didn't sound good with my trusty Mesa/Boogie Maverick amp until I replaced the Alumitone pickup with a George L's 10-1. No amount of knob twisting worked. I've been using that amp for 20 years, so I know the problem wasn't the amp.
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Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

If there is a steel guitar out there that can't produce plenty of overtones and a great clean, clear sound, I've never found it. The secret that players are discovering is: you must use a good buffer right at the pickup, NOT after a guitar cord.

After placing a buffer right at the pickup. . .

Here's what John McClung said:
"I'd always liked my tone before, but until you hear the difference, you'll find the improvement hard to believe."

Here's what Ron Deardorff said:
"I figured what the heck... the concept of plugging it in right at the jack, before anything else, was very intriguing. After a few days with it now (and some minor adjustments to my equipment settings) I gotta say I'm feeling pretty damn blown away. With the enhanced clarity and definition it imparts to the sound, it's like picking on a brand new set of strings, but beyond that even."

Here's what Paul King said:
"I plugged it in my guitar and man what a difference in clarity and string separation."

Mike Cass plays a GFI with Ray Price, here's what Mike said. . . pretty simple:
"I love mine!"

Jim Cohen said:
"I used it on my first gig a few nights ago and WOW! The clarity and string separation really improved at concert volume and the harmonics were really amazing. They seemed much easier to hit cleanly (despite sometimes sloppy technique) and they rang out for days."

These quotes are all from experienced players who are using a buffer right at the pickup. The truth is: You'll never know how good your guitar can sound until you get a good buffer and use it directly at the guitar, before any guitar cords.

We've all chased that great sound. We live for it! Hope you find it. Keep us posted,
Craig Baker

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

To hear what Craig is talking about, here's my A/B with his buffer
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyRhG2E0y-M
It might well help.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jim Priebe · From: Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.

Right on Craig.
These 'problems' need to looked at as part of the 'journey' and less as a negative or with tunnel vision.
The Alumes (the bass bars) are pretty low impedance and must look pretty foreign to the front end of a lot of guitar type (pre)_amps without a buffer. My impression is that they were designed to let bassists pick up the whole frequency spectrum and happily thump, bump, slap and twang and hear it all - pedal steelers just found they worked fine in a lot of cases - possibly somewhere between a single coil and a humbucker with zero noise.
I am not biased either way 'cos I kicked them out of one of my Strats after trying them. They worked fine - it was just no longer a Strat. They're fine in my GFI.
_________________
Priebs GFI ('09)Short-Uni10. GFI ('96)Short-Uni SD11. ('86)JEM U12
www.steelguitardownunder.com

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

Jim,
Impedance is probably one of the most misunderstood words in a musicianâ€™s vocabulary.

In the case of guitar pickups and amplifiers, the first thing we need to do is forget the word â€œmatchâ€. We are only concerned with transferring audio voltage from the guitar to the amplifier. No power is being transferred, and no transformers are involved, so there is no need to â€œmatchâ€ impedance. An easy way to understand impedance is by comparing the flow of audio to the flow of water in a system of pipes. Water can easily flow from a 2 inch pipe into another 2 inch pipe or into a 6 inch, or a 12 inch pipe. Water is restricted in an attempt to flow from a 12 inch pipe into a 2 inch pipe. Keep in mind, your signal can always â€œflowâ€ from low impedance to high, never from high impedance to low. A pickup wound with a lower number of turns to result in a low impedance, will also produce a much lower output than that with which common guitar amplifiers operate. It can offer a much cleaner sound, but with the price of a much lower output.

With a properly designed buffer following a standard pickup, you capture all of the advantage of low impedance, but you maintain the proper level that the amplifier is expecting to "see". In fact, even though there is no gain, there is an "apparent" increase in volume because you will now hear more of the overtones that give a steel guitar such a pleasing sound, you will simply hear more of what you're playing.

In my own case, it revealed how Non-Nashville my playing was.

All the best to you,
Craig Baker

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The Lil Izzy, or a similar device will be a plus to the sound of many, and I had one of the original models. However, there are many that are getting the sound the original poster is looking for without it.

The pickup is definitely the first item to look at. I have a Franklin with Lawrence 710's - very bright and clean if I want it that way, without any "enhancement device". My wife has a GFI Expo S-10 with the stock GFI II pickup which I've been told is basically a George L's E66. It does not have anywhere close to the frequency range punch that my Lawrence 710's have. I tried an E66 in my Franklin one time to see and could not come close to the Lawrence. As the GFI is just for my wife's own enjoyment and will never leave the house (unless I have an emergency with the Franklin) there is no need to try and make it sound different.

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

Jack,
Always enjoy your posts. You not only have a ton of experience in many areas of electronics, but you've played in many bands and backed many "name" entertainers. Just curious. . . how many of the shows in which you performed used high impedance microphones?

Won't you agree that the advantages that low impedance offers make it worth at least trying a Match Box, or a Freeloader, or a Li'l Izzy. . . especially if there is a risk-free, money-back guarantee if you're not delighted with the sound?

ps: One person did tell me thet using a buffer made his steel sound "too clean". That's like saying "The bride was too pretty".

Go figure.

Respectfully,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Craig, the last High Z mic that I can remember being used in a band I was in, was in the 60's.

Low Z does not have cable length issues, frequency rolloff and loss of sound volume potential and not as susceptible to induced noise/hum that the high impedance devices do.

I remember the demo George Lewis did with your Lil Izzy and a full roll of George L's cable one year at the ISGC. No signal deterioration.

I have an original model Goodrich MatchBro, that has basically the Matchbox Low Z buffer built in, along with a tone control in bypass. However, I can get an equally clean/good sound if I do not use the MatchBro and go directly from my guitar to my Hilton Volume Pedal (which also has buffering in it).

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

Jack,
Somehow, I knew you would have to be a member of the "low impedance team".

I've never tried this, but as good as the Match Bro is, I still say: using a 1/4" male to male adapter, plugging it right into your pickup, with no cord in-between, would make your steel sound even MORE "Good and Rich".

Hey. . . I wonder if that's how Phil came up with that name?

Sincerely,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I can't hear anything above 12k anyway. Oh Well

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Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I have a short George L's cable between the guitar output and the MatchBro input. With high quality cable and a very short run I don't think it would make any difference. Any capacitive or inductance Reactance caused by the cable would be negligible.

BTW, I use George L's cables exclusively.

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