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Topic: push-pull emmons losing tune |
Paul Norman
From:
Washington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 28 May 2013 5:46 am |
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| after sitting up for awhile the 6th string will drop out of tune. Retuning has to be done on the end not at the keyhead. What could cause this? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 May 2013 6:32 am
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That red thread sealing stuff has scraped off, and the threads are loose, most likely.
Temporary solution: teflon thread tape or pipe dope.
Ideal solution: Mike Cass, Lynn Stafford, other Emmons dealers (or Emmons Guitar) have new screws with fresh goop
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 28 May 2013 6:33 am
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| If this happens after it's been played a bit check the 6-32 screw in the end plate as it sounds like it could be loose (in that case the pedaled note (A in the E9th tuning) would still be in tune but the G# would be flat. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 May 2013 6:35 am
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Jim, don't you mean the lower svrew in the lowering finger?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jack Strayhorn
From:
Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted 28 May 2013 7:19 am
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| The red goop is called Nylok! The screws are purchased with the coating on them. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 28 May 2013 7:40 am
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| That's right Lane. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 28 May 2013 7:54 am
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From a previous thread:
| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
Another product I ran across is Vibra-tite VC-3 Threadmate acrylic polymer thread coating that looks like it would work well though I have no personal experience with it. Removable and adjustable, vibration resistant. www.vibratite.com
Looks like Amazon has it. Maybe eBay or other supply houses. |
I also found this supplier online. http://www.jdindustrialsupply.com/vibra-tite-vc-3-threadmate.html
Also check hobby shops, gun shops etc. There's a small tube of the stuff that's about 5 or 6 bucks.
They make several types of lockers and sealers, but the VC-3 is the stuff for continuously adjustable tuning screws and nuts. |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 28 May 2013 8:28 am
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I had this problem once.....make sure your lowering finger return spring is pulling the lowering finger tight against the cabinet.
_________________
Jerry Jones |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 28 May 2013 9:13 am
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| i don't have all that goop on my screws and i don't have that problem. |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 28 May 2013 11:21 am
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ohhhhh..but yes i am, grasshopper....
i don't necessarily have a monogamous relationship...the pp is set up and closer to the door. unlike your pristine machines however, mine stay together with crud and hair, rather than boutique goop. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 28 May 2013 12:06 pm
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There's nothing boutique about the goop on the screws. Emmons sure thought it was necessary or they wouldn't have used treated screws to start with.
I owned a P/P for about 10 yrs. and I experienced the same loosening of tuning screws a few times over the years. I used some type of tape that was given to me by a machinist and before that wound a few strands of thread around a screw or two with a little glue to tighten them up.
Yessir, not an uncommon problem at all. That's why they were treated in the first place. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 28 May 2013 12:33 pm
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| yes..i understand the concept. and i would put a little on the threads if i were having problems. |
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Paul Norman
From:
Washington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 28 May 2013 1:37 pm
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| I want to thank the ones who gave me the answers. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 28 May 2013 4:42 pm
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Jesus ... Red or blue lock tight.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 5:14 pm
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| Ken Metcalf wrote: |
| Jesus ... Red or blue lock tight. |
Not red Loctite for sure!  That will "lock" the screw semi-permanently and will be way too tight to tune. Even blue Loctite will probably be tighter than stock.
You could always swap the problem tuning screw with one on another string that's not being used. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 7:06 pm
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| Locktite 545 |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 8:07 pm
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| Any Lok-tite works. Slather it on the screw and let it set-up before screwing it into the changer finger. It will act as a temporary thread filler. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 12:39 pm
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I find for a plain unwound 6th string that a combination of Loctite and a compression spring on the tuning screw helps. The unwound 6th string always needs a slight tweak on setting up compared to other strings on my push pull, but once in tune will stay that way for the rest of a gig or session.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Richard Damron
From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 Jun 2013 7:36 am
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The Loctite folks recommend using a bunch of heat to soften "red" Loctite such that the part may be removed. Anyone for applying a propane torch to the belly of their guitar?
In this instance, "blue" is the only way to go.
Richard |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 4 Jun 2013 7:42 am
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Thanks Richard - I should have clarified blue Loctite.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 4 Jun 2013 8:02 am
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| how does an 'unwound' string relate to the mechanics of a machine screw thread? |
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Richard Damron
From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 Jun 2013 9:40 am
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FYI and a clarification of my above post.
From the Loctite folks regarding "red" Loctite:- "Disassembling requires localized heat (>550°F/260°C), hand tools, and disassembly while hot."
For those of you who like to make things permanent - proceed with caution.
Richard |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 4 Jun 2013 1:26 pm
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| Richard Damron wrote: |
The Loctite folks recommend using a bunch of heat to soften "red" Loctite such that the part may be removed. Anyone for applying a propane torch to the belly of their guitar?
In this instance, "blue" is the only way to go.
Richard |
Just to reiterate........., the RED Loc-tite can be used as a thread-filler. Apply it to the screw after it is totally removed from the changer finger. Then, let it harden BEFORE screwing it back in.
At that point, it will merely coat the screw, affording a tighter fit much like the OEM Nylock coating does. Since it dries before the two surfaces are mated, it will not lock the threads together. |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2013 5:32 pm
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| Tony Glassman wrote: |
Just to reiterate........., the RED Loc-tite can be used as a thread-filler. Apply it to the screw after it is totally removed from the changer finger. Then, let it harden BEFORE screwing it back in.
At that point, it will merely coat the screw, affording a tighter fit much like the OEM Nylock coating does. Since it dries before the two surfaces are mated, it will not lock the threads together. |
None of the Loctite formulas I'm familiar with, specifically 242 Blue and 271 Red, dry in the air. Rather they cure in the absence of air once the two pieces are mated (screwed together). |
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