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Topic: VP Pot Quality |
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 May 2013 10:54 am |
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I can't understand why someone can't offer a decent pot at a decent price. There's just not much to these things. It would be a good opportunity for some mfg. to tweak production just a small amount so that they could be sold at reasonable cost and last a reasonable amount of time.
The failure rate of pots in recent years is obscene. Particularly considering the premium price we have to pay for them.
If you can buy one from Radio Shack for $5, someone should be able to offer one for our purpose at a reasonable price.
As it is, they're about twice as much, at least, as they're worth. We could live with that if they would last longer than a few weeks.
I have one of the old Goodrich PV series dual action active pedals that takes 2 pots. I would like to change them out, but I just can't afford to buy 2 of them at current prices with the possibility that they might fail in a few weeks or might have issues at the time of installation.
Yes, I've heard all the arguments and goading to ditch pot pedals for electronic ones, but I don't want to do that. I like my pot pedals. It's a shame that something as simple as a basic potentiometer can't be slightly upgraded for a couple bucks more and give a lot better service. |
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Al Carey
From:
Dublin, NH USA
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Posted 29 May 2013 11:54 am
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I've been thru 2 Goodrich pots in just a few weeks, as I described in another post. I thought I must be doing something wrong...
_________________
Sierra U-12, Gretsch 6120, Fender Tele, old tube amps, etc... |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 May 2013 12:02 pm
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You aren't doing anything wrong. It's just that the quality is crap.
We need someone like the folks at Telonics to look into overseeing the acquisition of quality components and production of good parts. There's nothing there but a shaft, a few terminals and some carbon parts. What we're getting v what we're paying for is ridiculous IMO. |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 29 May 2013 12:13 pm
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If someone has an allen bradley part number for the vintage pots, I can have my NOS guy track them down.
I have a guy that I use to track down vintage Allen Bradley resistors that I use in my amp - they always show up brand new in their packaging. I bet those will last much longer because they are much higher quality than the best stuff made today.
I would be more than happy to put together a group buy - but I need the original part number
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Dave Bertoncini
From:
Sun City West, Arizona USA
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Posted 29 May 2013 12:38 pm
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I have a couple...here is info from the 500K
JA IN056S504AA
500K-OHM 8049
Type J
Hope this helps
Dave |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 May 2013 12:48 pm
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This is the AB I took out of my old Goodrich. I don't believe it has ever been replaced, but I just don't really have any way of knowing if it's the original or a replacement.
You would think that if anyone could get a lead on NOS stock it would be Goodrich since they are one of the biggest users, but who knows.
This # is JA1NO56S504AA. I also have an old MIM Clarostat with the same numbers. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny if that is the correct part that Goodrich originally used.
It would be great if some of these could be found, but the long range problem lies in the lack of quality components and production of new product. |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 29 May 2013 1:25 pm
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yeah but if you can buy up a stash 5-6 of them then you should be good to go for a long time!
I sent an email to my guy - we'll see what he can find
in general, NOS parts are of much higher quality than new production versions of the same thing. This is true for pots, tubes, resistors, capacitors, sockets, knobs... you get the idea
My guess is that Goodrich does not want to spend more than $3-4 apiece on pots for their pedals. However, if you are going to spend $25-30 on a replacement pot, it might as well be the real thing!
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 May 2013 2:14 pm
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| Tim Marcus wrote: |
| ....However, if you are going to spend $25-30 on a replacement pot, it might as well be the real thing! |
I agree with that statement, but that's still twice as much as they are actually worth IMO,.... let us know what you find out. I'd prolly spring for at least one if I could be sure it was of the same old quality. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 29 May 2013 2:27 pm
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The long shaft RV4 (MIL-grade) part number is JA1N200P504AA.
Comparing the cheap Radio Shack parts to MIL stuff is like comparing Harbor Freight tools to Snap-On tools.  The cheap pots can be made for under $1, but there is just no way that a MIL part can be made that cheaply.
Any of the better pots will last infinitely longer (like years and years) if the installer will just take the time to lube the pot before it's installed. Look guys, I've gone over this time and time again, but the complaints I hear are getting to sound like those from the people who buy a new lawnmower, and then try to run it without keeping it filled with oil.
You can either remove the cover and spray the pot with silicone pot cleaner/lube (also available at Radio Shack) or you can continue to ruin perfectly good pots by not doing the right thing. Complaints don't fix the problem, guys. Smart maintenance does! It's just like a pedal steel or a car - take care of it, and it will last a lot longer.
The choice is yours. 
Note: Some of the newer pots (PEC?) are completely sealed, and they cannot be opened for lubing. Those are considered "disposable", and you just buy another when the one you have goes bad. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 May 2013 2:32 pm
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I ain't buyin' that argument. When you install a new pot and it starts getting scratchy in just 2 or 3 weeks, or less even, IMO they're just junk from the get go. I been replacing pots for 35 years. I've never lubed a pot as routine maintenance in my life and the old AB's lasted a good long while.
Straight guitars and amps having been using pots for 100 yrs. I've never seen anything in any instructions or manuals for guitars, amps or volume pedals that says you need to lube a pot.
There's no question that the quality of replacement parts has steadily declined. There's absolutely no reason why better components couldn't be used in the initial manufacture. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 May 2013 2:42 pm
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| Go to Hamfests. Talk to people there. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 May 2013 2:58 pm
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| What is Hamfests? |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 29 May 2013 4:17 pm
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| i've got three pot pedals and can't remember the last time i ever had to change one. so i just looked at the one set up on my living room steel next to me here. it's a zumsteel pedal and the pot is a clarostat 500k type EJ extra life made in mexico. i've also got an emmons pot pedal and a goodrich 10k. i haven't had a problem for years so it's hard to relate to everyone elses constant problems. |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 29 May 2013 4:50 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
| Go to Hamfests. Talk to people there. |
HAM radio meetups. There is usually one or two a year in every region of the US.
Basically a bunch of old white guys with awesome stashes of really cool stuff. Worth going to for sure! If you are into tubes and vintage radio parts you can score there if you know what you are looking for.
anyway - my NOS guy is on task. If I can get 50 or 100 of these I will put a group buy together and we can all forget our woes until the stash is gone 
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 29 May 2013 4:55 pm
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Hamfest: definition:
Where amateur radio operators go to exchange money for radio equipment!
There are usually a lot of parts available at them.
You can find one near you at http://www.arrl.org/hamfests-and-conventions-calendar. Enter your zip code and in the box to the right of it, select how far away.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 May 2013 5:16 pm
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I hear you Chris. I have an old MSA pedal and I can't remember the last time I changed the pot in it. It's either an AB or Clarostat. The other pedal I mentioned has a failing pot. I've lubed and cleaned it to no avail, so it's eventually got to be changed.
There's also another pot in there that operates on the left/right action. To replace both of them at today's prices is app. 75 bucks with delivery. That's a lot of money to me, considering the current crop of replacements. Due to the design of this pedal, it's a chore and the way the circuit boards etc. are laid out, a Dunlop pot is not an option.
I just think it's time we demanded a better product for the prices we are paying.
Hopefully Tim will scare up some quality NOS parts.
For those of you without problems and issues, great for you. Eventually, it will be though. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 29 May 2013 6:37 pm
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Has anyone reverse-engineered what it is about the old Allen-Bradley extra-life pots that made them superior?
It seems that it would be possible to find a contractor to make them if the specs could be pinned down as to what would make them sufficiently long-lived.
At the prices steel players would be willing to pay it seems that a relatively short run could still be profitable for a manufacturer. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 29 May 2013 7:21 pm
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When you have a piece of space-age equipment available like the Telonics volume pedal - why anyone would bother with a pot pedal is beyond me !!!
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Glenn Uhler
From:
Trenton, New Jersey, USA
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Posted 29 May 2013 7:30 pm Old and New Pots
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The biggest differences between todays' $1 500K pots and yesterdays' $5.00 pots are inspection and assembly. Todays' pots are punched out by machines and assembled by machines. Then, the pots are inspected by machine. If the pot doesn't pass the final inspection, it just goes for recycling. Labor costs to inspect and assemble the pots by hand are just too high, even in China, to consider doing it any other way.
If the resistance element is punched out of the resistance material and here is a little cracking or roughness that would cause it to be scratchy, the machine doesn't care. It just goes in the tray with all the other "good" parts. Same with the cases, contacts, wipers, shafts, etc. All the individual parts get dumped into the assembly machine. The machine assembles everything, good and bad, and as long as they "pass" the machine inspection, they get packaged and sold.
Mil-spec pots had almost every part hand inspected under a magnifying glass to make sure nothing was rough or cracked, and make the best possible part.
_________________
1974 Marlen S-12 1968 Tele 1969 Martin D-35H |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 May 2013 9:50 pm
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| Paddy Long wrote: |
| When you have a piece of space-age equipment available like the Telonics volume pedal - why anyone would bother with a pot pedal is beyond me !!! |
Beyond me too....about $400 beyond me. I believe Dave and the folks at Telonics must be good folks and offer very nice products. Nothing to do with them. Some of us just happen to like the old pot pedals.
They were reasonably reliable until the pot quality started going south. I'm not ready to pitch them yet.
Electronic pedals are not without issues either. |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 29 May 2013 10:12 pm
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couldn't agree more
I can hobble through a show or a session with a scratchy pot - but a dead power supply and you are dead in the water with an active pedal
if the telonics or hilton pedals ran off of a standard 9V battery or 9V pedal power unit (of which there are always many available at every club and studio I have ever been to) I would make the transition.
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Al Carey
From:
Dublin, NH USA
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Posted 30 May 2013 3:42 am
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| Tim Marcus wrote: |
anyway - my NOS guy is on task. If I can get 50 or 100 of these I will put a group buy together and we can all forget our woes until the stash is gone |
Awesome, Tim! Count me in!
_________________
Sierra U-12, Gretsch 6120, Fender Tele, old tube amps, etc... |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 30 May 2013 9:29 am
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So, what about the pots that Tom Bradshaw offers?
My oldest one is over 5 years old and still works flawlessly.
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Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 30 May 2013 12:07 pm Pots.
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| I bought a Cosmos, Tokyo pot at a guitar show in Austin, yrs. ago. It's one of the quietest, cleanest, and smoothest pots I've ever used, except I can't find'em anywhere. Mine has been in for 3yrs. and it's absolutely quiet, and nothing lasts forever. Cosmos has a website, but the longshaft pots aren't listed. Anyone heard of these pots, or know where to get'em? |
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