Next Noob Question: Maverick v. Carter Starter

JC Harris · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Hi,

I've read lots of disagreement topics on the C/S.

I was in a music shop here in Seattle today and the guy actually -had- a pedal steel guitar... a used Sho-Bud 'Maverick' learner instrument.

Please understand, we get very few P/S in Seattle.

So... without causing an argument... is the Maverick considered 'better' than the Carter? If so, in what way? I approached it, expecting to instantly realise why it's 'better' than the Carter, but was less than overwhelmed. Seemed just as 'wobbly' as my Carter. And only one knee lever.

I understand higher level Sho-Buds are well-regarded, but what about Mavericks?

Just trying to get a sense of what makes one better than another.

TIA,

---JC

Daniel McKee · From: Corinth Mississippi

I have a maverick and I really like them.Mavericks are great for a beginner but they are limited in what you can do as far as setups.I dont know a major difference between the two or why one would be a lot better than the other but I really prefer the maverick to most student models.

Scott Duckworth · From: Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies

Maverick = 3 ped + 1 knee
Carter Starter = 3 ped + 4 knees
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Joseph Carlson · From: Grass Valley, California, USA

I've played both and neither was ideal. The Maverick only had one knee lever and the Carter Starter felt a little flimsy. I would recommend the Carter just because of the resale value and also the 4 knee levers. Plus a Maverick is probably at least 20 years old, probably more.

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

They are both starter instruments and marketed that way - I don't know why people want to critique them so much. A lot of players started on the maverick. You can either pony up the cash for a semi-pro model, or deal with the starters til you are ready to move up. It's my opinion that 3x1 is fine for a beginner - you learn the instrument more logically if you understand this set up first.
Either way, the moral is buy wisely as you will be eventually stepping up and from what I see, these hold their value, so at least you often get your money back...not often the case with many off-brand step-up models even though they may be fine steels.
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Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

At best you're no further ahead with a Maverick. And you would only have one knee lever. I would take the Carter over a Maverick hands down.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Maverick advantages: tone, build quality, solidity.
Maverick disadvantages: limited changer, and while expanding it is possible, it's $pendy

Starter advantages: full copedent
Starter disadvantages: feels kinda flimsy, some lever stops either bend or break.

Both guitars will get you started. Both will disappoint you as soon as you get past that "holy crap, you mean I gotta rub my belly and pat my head to make this thing work?" stage, but for different reasons.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

JC Harris · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I've -seen- a number of student instruments with one knee lever. What strings does this control? It must be considered 'more useful' than the others, right?

TIA,

---JC

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Some drop 4 and 8, others drop 2 and 8.
To drop at least one E is essential, unless your interest extends no farther than Don Worden
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

JC Harris · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Interesting. I'm starting to realise (at least in the beginning) it's more about 'patterns' and 'positions' than 'notes'. I've been trying to learn 'the notes' as I would on a guitar which is probably backwards. This helps a lot.

Thanks,

---JC

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Right. As this instrument's natural function is harmonizing itself (at least the E9th tuning), if you think in terms of "what chord is this, and what scale degrees are right there if I add/release a change?", it comes together much more quickly.
At least that's how I look at it. It seems to work for me
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

JC Harris · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

For anyone else starting. I watched the beginning of the Bruce Bouton video the other night. I was about to turn it off as he kept saying, 'just ask a friend' for so many things...

But then he does this thing for about 30 seconds where he shows how he visualises the strings in 'groups' based on each -inversion-. And I instantly felt like one of the bigger morons on the planet for not picking up on this immediately. EUREKA! (And then he moves on to more fluff. Very Happy

)

The whole video is like that... lots and lots of disorganised rambling you'd expect from someone who isn't really a teacher. But every so often there's an insight that is just pure gold. Just what I needed.

Thanks again,

---JC

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

The Maverick and Carter Starter occupy a place in the steel guitar world. Low budget entry level instruments. If you only can spend 350-400, you can buy a Maverick, get whatever you can from it, then sell and get your money back. The Starter would be a good deal at about 500. These days, Mavericks usually go for 500+ and Starters 700+. I'd say, only consider them if you it get cheaper and accept the fact you will probably end up selling it in a short time. If you can afford 1000 or so, don't even consider either one of these instruments.

JC Harris · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I'm probably asking for a world of trouble, but I gotta ask...

Why so -much- negativity towards 'starter' instruments in general? I just don't get it. The overall advice seems to be 'don't bother with any of them... get a -real- instrument'.

I -am- a noob and I don't get it. What, -specifically- is -wrong- with these sorts of things? I understand my C/S is wobbly, but other than that? I don't see anything really -awful-. So... what am I missing?

IOW: What -specifically- should I avoid for my next P/S? What will I grow to -hate-? Obviously, I'm not even to a point to recognise the difference between a 'good' instrument and a 'starter'.

---JC

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

this attitude stems from so many people wanting you to know 'how smart they are ' and 'what stuff they have', with no concern for your feelings. enjoy your carter and learn as much as you can and in a year you'll have your answers.

the only time it's better to get an older solid steel as opposed to the starter is when you can get a better one as cheaply, which does occassionally happen. learn to tune out lots of the unnecessary stuff you read on the forum unless it makes clear sense.

JC Harris · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Perhaps.

But I know woodwind teachers who SCREAM about their kids getting crappy instruments... apparently with certain winds, you really -do- need to get a decent instrument to start because you can easily create bad habits that -ruin- any chance you've got of getting beyond a certain level (I dated a woman in college who had that issue with trumpet--she developed a bad embouchure and after 10 years she reached a 'ceiling'. It was uuuugly.)

But I teach 'regular' guitar. And I see lots of kids with knock-off strats or martins and they can get going for a couple of years before they should even -thknk- about an expensive instrument.

So... Just wondering. What are the things that make a 'pro' instrument 'pro'? What will I just get SICK of after a while?

Thanks,

---JC

James Wolf · From: Georgia

Lee Dassow · From: Jefferson, Georgia USA

JC, I had a maverick back in the 70's, but you are limited when you cant raise and lower those E's a half tone. Course you can use a lot of bar slants,
not the end of the world. If you can get one for about $500.00 that wouldn't be bad, Then take that knee lever and drop your E's like Lane said, But I see you already have the Carter. The maverick sounded great through my 65 Super reverb. A carter starter would probably sound great through any of those old fender tube amps. Just my average Intelligence,and experience of years of playing on the job. Not trying to influence you either way. Tennessee Lee
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Rich Gardner · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

I've owned both a Maverick and a Carter Starter. They were both good guitars, but save your money and buy a Stage One. I bought one a year ago and love it.

Michael Schuppe · From: Kent, Washington, USA

The Starter is absolutely adequate for the complete beginner who has no experience with other steels to judge against it. My first steel was a CS ; my first guitar was a $32 Teisco. Neither instrument was ideal, but persistence and lots of practice paid off. Just roll up your sleeves and dig in. Eventually with enough practice, you'll get to the point where you'll want to upgrade. But for now, IMO, it's fine.

JC Harris · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I guess it sounds like I'm whinging... Not at all.

I just wanna know what's -different- (better) about higher priced instruments.

Beginning guitarists often ask me the same thing... Why is a $400 classical guitar not as good as a $3,000 Ramirez. So I show them various things: harmonics ring -much- easier, chords balance much better. Far greater dynamic range... and so on.

I was looking for the same thing. When I plug this C/S in, it plays in tune, the tone is decent, the pedals operate smoothly. So, I don't see what makes a $2,000 instrument better. What am I missing?

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Maybe I wasn't very clear: both of these steels are usually overpriced. You don't get much value for your money. Most buyers don't know what they are buying. Why pay 800 for a used Carter Starter when you can buy a new Stage One for 949? Why spend 600-700 for a Maverick? They're just not worth that much. If you stick with playing steel, the Maverick or the Starter will be for sale soon. That's OK, but you don't want to lose money on a poorly planned purchase. If you can get the Mav for 400 or the Starter for 500, go ahead. You will be able to get all the money back. Spend a little more and you won't need to sell it in a few months. My first guitar was a Maverick, it was OK at first. 8 or 9 months later I bought a new BMI S-10, 3 pedals, 3 levers. The BMI was a much better instrument. You can often find a used S-10 BMI, MSA, Dekley and some others for less than a 1000.

EDITED: JC I re-read your post above, and now I see that you already have the Carter Starter. My first impression was that you wanted opinions on student pedal steels in general. I believe that what I have posted is true; used student steels are usually overpriced. But since you have the Starter, just enjoy playing and learning what you can. I will make a prediction, thought, if you stick with pedal steel, you will soon be thinking about getting a higher quality instrument. Good luck to you.

Lee Dassow · From: Jefferson, Georgia USA

If I saw both for $500.00 I'd get the maverick only because it was the second steel guitar I ever owned. They were made pretty well. T.L.
_________________
2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars,

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

JC, I attempted to explain in my post on the thread exactly the answer to your question.
The shortcomings on each largely don't affect your getting started, but will become quite irritating once you get past the "adapting to the lunatic level of multitasking this thing requires" stage.
With the Carter, that means the wobbly construction and mushy stops. They don't bother you while you're trying to learn what to do and how do it, but once you start feeling comfortable with the crazy things, you'll notice that, and be kicking yerself for not waiting til you had just a few hundred more for a more substantial guitar.
With the Maverick, the limited copedent will, again, not prove a huge obstacle to getting started, but once you get a grip on what to do and how to do it, the lack of knees will have you kicking yerself for not waiting til you had the money for a more complete guitar.
The reason many of us are down on them is that, while suitable for getting started, they quickly become unsatisfying.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

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