What a Fiddle !

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Yes, I know this isn't the Fiddle Forum, but my excuse is that most steel guitarists end up playing along with the fiddle....

I have big fingers, and I like more bass, so, for me, the viola works better than the violin.

Something wrong somewhere ? Whoa!

[1] I'm more used to playing the mandolin, so I put frets on it. Shocked

[2] Tuning pegs drive me crazy. They stopped using push pegs on guitars over a century ago. It's about time the violin family caught up. I've fitted machine tuners. They stay in tune !

I can hear mumblings from traditionalists already !
...can't he play in tune without frets ?
...push pegs were okay for Paganini and they're okay for me.

Bob Hickish · From: Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.

Alan

How does the frets work out for intonation ?

that would help eliminate the out of tune
problems between two non fretted instruments .

I will mention this to a fiddle player I know . Rolling Eyes

Hick

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Brilliant ideas, Alan! I've been thinking of building a fiddle exactly this way for years. (mine will have a simplified body & headstock as well, maybe a bolt-on neck (the last one was a joke))

Do the frets affect the tone in a negative way? Is it "fiddly" to play with frets, or (as I would expect) much, much easier? Tell us more, please!

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Very pretty. I guess with frets the traditional vibrato goes away, though.

J. R. McClung · From: Oklahoma, USA

Looks like some handy mods you've done.

A few decades ago fiddles with machine tuners would show up every now and then, but they soon disappeared from the landscape. Wonder why the idea didn't take?

As for the frets,
1) do they impair your vibrato? And,
2) do they impair the ability to "slide into" a note? The frets on my mandolin sure do prevent that.

Last question: Did you use a full-size viola for this project?

Keep on fiddlin'.......Joel
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Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I saw several fiddles (not violas) like this playing bluegrass festivals back in the70's. The "real" (I use that term with a bit of derision) fiddlers would scoff, but the folks playing them were usually just nailing the usual bluegrass-adapted fiddle tunes. Yes, vibrato and normal fiddle slides were nonexistent, but when it came to just playing the notes correctly the idea seemed to work, and players I saw with them were good enough to get the most out of it. One guy said it allowed him to really work on and refine his bowing, as he didn't need to worry about intonation as much They also all played with a MUCH lower action, as the frets allow clean notes with string closer to the fingerboard.

It's never caught on but it's a neat idea - you lose some traditional stuff but gain in other areas. As a mando player who had tried fiddle and been awful at it, it's something that interested me back then but I didn't pursue it.

As for geared tuners, they should have been adopted decades ago. That's a silly case of traditionalism overpowering common sense.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

That's what I call progress! Now if we can come up with some solution to the bow we'll be in business. Maybe some sort of Dremel attachment that would rub the strings...

Andy Greatrix · From: Edmonton Alberta

Maybe a whammy bar would take care of the vibrato!
(I'm only joking) Seriously, a fiddle player could have one of each.(maybe, some palm pedals?)

Peter Nylund · From: Finland

Violin with frets is not a new invention. Here is another one (with seven strings)
http://www.woodviolins.com/html/viper.html
When do they come as double-10? Cool

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I know my playing is a bit pitchy, but at least my tone sucks

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

David Hildago from the TexMex Rock Band (Los Lobos) uses a fretted fiddle in their shows and it sounds pretty dang good.

I've played mandolin all my life so I know the notes and all my thwarted attempts at playing the fiddle haven't been because of intonation it's been because I can't seem to get the bowing thing going like it's supposed to be.......JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

BAck when i used to teach fiddle and or violin I had them learn to use the bow before putting a finger on the strings.
I have read where the violin teachers over a hundred years ago some had their students work with the bow for a year before teaching to note.Tracy

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

BTW.I played fiddle fpr a living for years before taking up steel.
Years after i had played fiddle pro i then took lessonsfrom a wonderful classic violinist.I wanted to learn how they always knew where they were when playing at the top of the neck.
First thing he did was to teach me how to hold the bow corretly and slant if for better tone and control.Wow Wish i had had a teacher like that when i first started.After i could bow correctly he then taught me the 1st a 3rd noting scales.Was like learning all over again.But i was getting in to a differnt style of music.
But the down side is i was never able to play country again with out over playing so went back to steel.Tracy

Gary C. Dygert · From: Frankfort, NY, USA

Alan, you make nice stuff! I know that with your musicological knowledge you're aware of the bowed and plucked stringed instruments, fretted and nonfretted, with multiple tunings, that go back hundreds of years. This is part of that tradition. Andy beat me with that palm pedal line. Maybe some knee levers...

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

How do the frets affect vibrato ? Well, the classical guitar has frets and so does the lute, and both those instruments are played with vibrato. The difference is that with no frets vibrato is created by rocking the fingers against the fingerboard, whereas with frets you're rocking the fingers against the frets.

The main difference (other than the fact is that it's easier to play in tune) is the same difference between playing a regular guitar and a lap steel... sliding along the fingerboard. On a fretless instrument, or playing with a bar, as you slide the transition from one note to another is a glissando, whereas with frets you hear the notes that you're passing over for an instant. This is why the mountain dulcimer is so good for sliding along the fingerboard: having a diatonic fingerboard, when you slide the fingers you go from one note in the key to another without sounding the semitones.

As has been pointed out by others here, bowed instruments with frets are not new. The violin family replaced the viol family during the 16th to 18th centuries. Most viols had at least five strings, and the viola da gamba, the equivalent of the modern 'cello, had six.

Machine tuners on double basses have become the accepted norm during the 20th century, and the first instrument I experimented on was the violoncello (the 'cello), which I fitted up with bass guitar tuners several years ago. It just looked like a small bass, so no-one noticed. The tuners on the viola (above) are just guitar tuners, and a lot of people wouldn't notice them if I didn't point them out. This was a store-bought viola which I converted. If I were building one from scratch, which I shall some day, I wouldn't keep the mediaeval scroll on the headstock, I would finish the headstock like a mandolin. In fact, I've actually converted a mandolin to be played with a bow, by simply making the bridge curved so that the bow can reach the center strings. The problem there is that you need the cutaway so that the body doesn't touch the bow.

The problem with the bowing position I have yet to overcome. I broke my elbow as a kid and I find that holding the bow in the usual position becomes painful very quickly. Some fiddlers play with the instrument between the knees, which is the position that the viol used to be played in, and the 'cello still is.

The suggestion of using a power-driver wheel is not new. The hurdy-gurdy (otherwise known as the vielle) had an oak wheel covered in resin, that turned against the strings as you turned the handle. I once built a strohfidl, which works the same way but has a hummel body.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Seems like something must have happened over the last 6 yrs. relevant to this topic...

Michael Maddex · From: Northern New Mexico, USA

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Yes, my friend Brian Burns has been selling the new pegs for several years now. They've become very popular, especially among flamenco players, but they're expensive. I was going to put a set on a ukulele until I found out how much they cost. Sad

Iain · From: Edinburgh, Scotland

visible version of this http://www.frettedfiddle.com/ on an electric fiddle I got very cheaply, 2nd hand, to see if I could still play (learnt at school; haven't played for ages).
Took it out to a gig and played a couple of simple tunes a la Doug Sahm's fiddle style...well, at least I'd like to think I had a bit of his vibe(!)

Anyway, the stick-on "frets" work well.