Cryo Strings ..........something to think about ?

Ray Anderson · From: Jenkins, Kentucky USA

I've been thinking about these new strings and what the long term outcome might be. In my 40 year career I,ve used and dealt with just about every kind of metal materials that is available to the work world and my thought on these new strings is: How will these hardened string counteract of other metal parts i.e. changer fingers. When two parts are put together and work in realation to each other the question is, which will wear first, the changer finger arch or the string? My thinking is the changer finger (grooved) and over a period of time will have to be maintained and or repaired on a regular basis. I believe the older instruments will endure this much better because of the quality of the metals. Todays metals are far less inferior and are really of poor quality and that is common knowledge (we live in a mild steel world that is cost concious).Not knocking the strings in any way . But sometimes "New and Improved" is not always better. JMHO Winking

Thoughts and opinions welcomed.

Dickie Whitley · Posted 9 Feb 2013 7:43 am

Ray, I think the old saying "The proof is in the pudding" may apply here. All the reviews of the cryo strings I've seen thus far were all good. I am puzzled by this statement:

Ray Anderson · From: Jenkins, Kentucky USA

What I'm saying is that there has not been enough time to know what adverse effects of the harder strings on the changer fingers. (Time will tell). If I'm right it will cause troubles later on and many do not have the concept of repairs on their instruments. The quality of metals today are much lower today than in previous times ( I deal with this on a daily basis on parts and components)the life expectantcy is less than it used to be. Todays builders and fabricatores use the materials that are available to them in the common market for fabricating changer fingers and such parts they use in their builds. I don't think they have "special recipe" metals that are made to their specs. Most supplies are of a foreign origin. When face with this issue of metals, you must decide which is the cost effective replacement or they will wear at the same pace. So strings would be less of a cost than fingers. Again, I'm not knocking the strings merely thinking down the road on this. I for one don't think it's worth the risk. Winking

Dickie Whitley · Posted 9 Feb 2013 8:37 am

Point taken Ray. Maybe the answer would be to "cryo" the changer fingers. Not trying to give a smart answer but rather offer the thought of a possible improvement on the instrument itself. Will it cost more, of course, but it depends on what you want. There are a lot of things that can be improved on the PSG, just depends on what you're willing to pay for it.

I agree whole-heartedly that the quality (and quantity in some cases) has gone down hill because of corporate greed. All the CEOs of companies these days care about is their salary and stock options, not the quality of the product they're producing, my opinion only, YMMV.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

There is the argument that Stainless Steel strings (actually just the wound strings) will cause more "wear" or ruts in changer fingers than Nickel strings.

I've used Stainless steel strings on my Franklin since I got it in 81 and there is very little, if any wear on the aluminum fingers.

I suspect the Cryo strings will be the same way. Cryo strings have been around for a while, this is just the first time they have been available in Pedal Steel Guitar sets.

Ray Anderson · From: Jenkins, Kentucky USA

That is exactly what I'm saying. You cannot improve one part without the imrovement of the other. I'm all for a new and better product, it is like trying to put todays music in our heads that are bent on the standard we were made for. The new music works best with the head it was designed for. Laughing

Not knocking the string, only wanting to bring some thought to the builders to see if it a valid building adjustment. If I am right in this thinking, then it will still cost the player either way. Whether it be in an improvement cost on a new one or a fix for an older model.JMHO Very Happy

Dickie Whitley · Posted 9 Feb 2013 8:56 am

Well Jack, if that be the case for yours then I'm not going to worry about mine. While I would like to think I have 30 more years (would make me 89), I doubt I'll have to worry about my changer fingers if my case be the same as yours.

That being the case, I also don't think my Williams bend radius is as bad as some others so I may be fine. As Ray notes, only time will tell on that.

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

Cryogenic treatment of metals does not make them harder. You may be confusing Sid's use of "tempering" in his promotion of these strings with hardening. If you have aluminum changer fingers, any string will impose some level of wear (however minor) on the softer aluminum part.

Ray Anderson · From: Jenkins, Kentucky USA

@ Jack, Very good point. But the usage for cryo strings was pretty much limited to 6 strings and such, the wasn't the movement across other metal parts as with the PSG. Most damaging to 6 strings was fret wear. Cryo technology is a completely different beast than what we are used to. At least im my vocation Cryo technology is showing its long term results and the solution to cope with it.

Ray Anderson · From: Jenkins, Kentucky USA

I would be very interested in knowing the definition of cryogenics if it were not for the tempering of a metal to change it structuring and durability characteristics. At least in my trade that is the specs and selling points of this process and what they say is the actual outcome of the product. Take a cryo drill bit for instance, they are expensive to purchase but they make the task so much easier as there is no comparison to other bits and I have tried them all. The down side to them is that they will brake under stress if not aligned perfectly. This is merely food for thought and not to be argumentive or degrading to a product. YMMV

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Music wire strings are, and always have been, infinitely harder than the aluminum used in most pedal steel changers. In any contest of wear, the steel will win out every time over aluminum. When people say that modern metals are inferior to metals made decades ago, it's a generalization, but there is some truth to the statement. The steel used to make ships during WWII (when we made thousands of ships very quickly) is a better grade than most of the stuff made today. Steel (the common grade) is made today with much more scrap content and emphasis on cutting costs, and indeed most all the Chinese stuff is simply inferior to an American made product. There are a few American companies still in the business, but they're being strained by the low cost of imported metal products.

Having said all this, I think it's wasting time to worry about differences in wear that may take many years to be significant. For most players, worrying about a steel that will last 40 or 50 years as opposed to one that will last only 20 or 25 is impractical. I think new guitars are preferred by many not because of their predicted life span, but because they are more accurately made, stay in tune better, and will do so much more than most older guitars. They're more reliable, cheaper (when inflation is factored in) and also lighter and smaller. Smile

Strings, as long as they sound good and last a respectable length of time, are something I wouldn't dwell over.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

If I (subjectively and objectively) find sonic improvements in having Cryo strings on my PSGs, I am gonna use them regardless of any increasing wear on the instruments they may cause.
Almost all improvements in one area will lead to some (potentially or real) problems being moved to other areas, and I don't think wear on changer rollers is likely to increase much, if at all, by putting Cryo strings on. If I understand the process correctly the cryo treated strings should have an even smoother surface than the non-treated ones, and if so the wear on bridge/changer may actually go slightly down by putting Cryo strings on.

Now I just have to wait for full range of single Cryo strings to come available, so I can compare custom Cryo sets, sonic and otherwise, to the ones I use now.

Daniel McKee · From: Corinth Mississippi

I wasnt familiar with these until recently and I hope to try them out one of these days.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Replaceable changer top caps would solve a key wear point problem in many steel guitars. Especially wear at a point that creates buzzing and sustain issues.

Greg

Chuck Blake · From: West Virginia, USA

As always this forum provides a source of information and issues that cause me to take time to consider all facets of certain discussions.

I would offer my thoughs. My first experience with cryo strings was in the 5 string banjo world. To date there has been no expressed concerns of excessive wear to frets on a banjo with regard to the use of cryo strings. However fret wear has ALWAYS been a concern for banjo players. Discussions have gone on for years as to the use of harder fret wire, also debates have taken place with regard to earlier fret wire verus that of todays modern fret wire.

Well no conclusions have been established except for those personal opinions of the debaters Very Happy

My banjo experienced fret wear with all types of strings. Solution replace frets, although not as expensesive as a changer Very Happy

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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Greg, you've read my mind. A cap(half moon shape) could be made to snap into place over the top of the changer finger. Designed right, could be changed out just by removing the string. They could actually be made out of several different materials, allowing the player to choose what they thought sounded better, or had more sustain and/or was more durable. Would they cost more? Of course, quality and ingenuity does. Doesn't Mullen anodize theirs?

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

And now there's Cobalt strings!

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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

Oh...I doubt it. You'd have to improvise a bit I'm sure. Rolling Eyes

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

If you are worried about or have wear on your aluminum changer fingers, read this thread - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=118670

Every used pedal steel I have ever gotten had some wear on the fingers that use wound strings. Some were no problem, but I felt that some needed to be sanded. I do pretty much what Earnest B. describes there - 600 or 800 grit to start, then work up to 1500 or even 2000 fine automotive sandpaper next (my NAPA store has a good selection), and final polish with Simichrome (only place around here that has it is the high-end motorcycle shop) or Nevr Dull wadding polish (avail at Wal-Mart). Be patient and especially be sure to sand following the contour of the top of the finger so you don't get a flat spot. I also agree with his suggestion to flip over the steel and wet-sand, to keep aluminum dust out of the changer.

I use whatever strings sound best to me without any regard for wear on the fingers which, as Donny points out, is gonna happen with any steel string on an aluminum finger.

My take.

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Supposedly the cryo strings have a somewhat smoother finish than non-cryo strings - the process smooths the finish - which possibly would imply less wear, not more....maybe..
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Assuming that they are better and we all want to start using them, will they be made available in the lower gauges for C6 or U-12?
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Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

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