Early Hank Williams lap steel or pedal?

Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

I have been trying to sort through the archives here to answer my questions. what instruments were used in those first recordings and who was playing them? Can anyone guide me to this information? Confused

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Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

A lot was done on a Gibson D-8 non pedal console by Don Helms. Jerry Byrd played some as well as other. All no pedals.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Ben Godard · From: Jamesville NC

Even though I think Jerry Byrd did some work for Hank, Don Helms was Hank main steel player. From what little I know, Don Helms started on a Doubleneck Fender in the early days and then he later traded it for his signature Gibson console grande which he played until his dying day. Of course he also played the psg too and had a few of those. He was pretty good on the pedal steel too but ironically most people wanted to just hear him play the Gibson console Grand since his "Hank" sound on the E6/E13 tuning is what he was known for.

If you want the inside scoop on Don Helms, he had a book written called Settin the Woods on fire. Also, an interview done by Joe Turner which is priceless to me. Plus it has some great music with Joe Turner and Don Helms playing at their best. All of this is on 1 cd.

Just my little 2 cents

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

It was [Mostly] Byrd through 1949. His last was "I just don't like this kind of living"
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Ray McCarthy · From: New Hampshire, USA

Don Helms can be seen playing his Gibson D-8 on "Legends of Steel Guitar" on YouTube.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Jerry's on a dozen or so, Don Davis a few, Helms on the lion's share with minor odd contributors prior to his hiring.

Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

I found the book, but a little pricey. it will have to go on my wish list, but I find this all very interesting and again thanks for the information.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo.

Brett Day · From: Pickens, SC

I saw Don's Gibson Console Grande up close and it is one awesome steel guitar. I was playin' a show in Nashville in October of '06, and before I went onstage, Don showed the guitar to me. It was great to be standin' near a steel guitar that had been played on so many Hank Williams records!

Brett

Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

I wonder how many of those they even built. I think I will try to look that up.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo.

Norman Evans · From: Tennessee

Here's a good early video of Don and the Gibson at work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1TJmh1Pd6I

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Here's a timeline of the life of Hiram King, complete with session logs. Interestingly, my favorite cuts are ALL Byrd. We use pedals because we lack Jerry's imagination.
http://leeharrisonline.tripod.com/hankwilliams/
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I'm pretty sure no pedal steel was ever used on any of Hank's recordings. Here is Don Helms' tuning, in his own hand...

Matthew Dawson · From: Portland Oregon, USA

I believe forumite Don Davis also played on quite a few of Hank's recordings. "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" and others.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Are you sure about your statement that Don Davis recorded "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" with Hank Williams?

I always tho't that it was JERRY BYRD on that old MGM record.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

According to the session notes, you're right, Ray. Recorded in the last Jerry Byrd session.
The one with "I Just Don't Like This Kind of Living."
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Ben Rubright · From: Punta Gorda, Florida, USA

Hank's recording of 'We Live in Two Different Worlds' back in the 50's sounds like the instrumental backing was added after Hank's vocal was recorded. It sounds neither like Jerry nor Don. It has been decades since I've heard that recording but my recollection is that I thought that it was a pedal steel. Anyone?

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Possible. The label re-produced some of his stuff later. I don't recall hearing pedals in the steel, I was too busy gagging on the Anita Kerr Singers. Crying or Very sad

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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I just visited YOU TUBE and a video of the Grand Old Opry-1949 featuring Hank Williams.

JERRY BYRD is the steel player for Red Foley's opener, Hank Williams' "You're Gonna Change"; Foleys'hymn "Clense Me"; and Jimmy Dickens "Country Boy"......

How wonderful it is to have the opportunity to glimpse back in time and to be able to participate in a live show, one that I grew up listening to as a youngster, a show that set my on my way to playing steel guitar.

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

I HAVE A DVD OF WHAT I BELIEVE TO DONS LAST SHOW IN AL. PUT ON BY BARNEY MILLER.
DON TOLD THE STORY ABOUT HOW HE GOT THE GIBSON. HE WAS PLAYING THE FENDER AT A SHOW AND A NMAN WANTED TO TRADE. HE TOLD HOW HANK GOT HIS RECORDING CONTRAT, AND HIS LAST RECORDING WITH HANK.

ERNIE

Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

Are there any recordings by Don Helms where he used the B13th tuning as piosted by Alan Brooks ? The E6th tuning is what my Ear always picked up on the HW recordings. It was easy to play Don's style but not that easy sometimes to duplicate his great tone.
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Sacramento Western Swing Society Hall of Fame, 1992

Ben Rubright · From: Punta Gorda, Florida, USA

Lane:
Boy do I relate to your comment concerning the Anita Kerr Singers. They replaced fiddles and steel on most all of the 'so-called country recordings' following Gone and 4-Walls in the late 50's and 60's. I am happy to say that I never bought any of them. I still haven't forgiven Chet, Owen, and the rest of the producers for what they did to country music.

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

I HAVE PLAYED WITH DON ON SEVERAL SHOWS, AND SET AT HIS FEET WHILE PLAYING. i HAVE HIS BOOK, IT IS
E13TH TUNNING. BUT HE DID NOT PLAY TH 7 OR 8TH STRINGS, ACCORDING TO HIS TAB.
LITLE ROY ALSO USED THIS TUNNING WITH EDDIE ARNOLD, BUT HE USED THE A MAJOR SIDE OF THE TUNING. ANOTHER MAJOR PLAYER YEARS AGO ALSO USED E 13TH, BUT HE USED THE C6 PART OF THE TUNING.
TJIS TUNING HAS 4 TUNINGS INSIDE OF IT.
YOU CAN PLAY SONG OF THE ISLAND IA
STEEL GUITAR RAG IN E
LITTLE COQUET UN C6TH.

ERNE

Joseph Kincher · From: Portland, Oregon USA

Agreed on those late overdub recordings. You can see from the session logs that a lot of studio time was booked for overdubs after Hank's death, presumably to adapt some of the recordings to the Nashville sound. So they added background singers, echo on Hank's vocals (the dead giveaway), and a lot of unnecessary instrumentation (If it ain't broke...). I had occasion to hear some of this recently, as a friend of mine had only one Hank Williams record in his collection and it was one of these non-MGM things. I imagine if you were previously unfamiliar with the original recordings, these would come off as generic at best, and they do a pretty good job squeezing the life out of the originals. To me, they're atrocious. If you DO hear honest-to-God pedal steel on a Hank song, it's on one of these.

A European record label called DOXY has re-issued all of the original recordings chronologically over several vinyl releases, some of which have the session/personnel details on the sleeve. From the records I own, I can tell you that Jerry Byrd played on sessions in 1947 & '48 (including the songs MANSION ON THE HILL, THERE'LL BE NO TEARDROPS TONIGHT, & LOVESICK BLUES), then Don Davis in March of 1949 (incl. LOST HIGHWAY, MAY YOU NEVER BE ALONE, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, WEDDING BELLS)...then Byrd comes back for a session in Aug. 1949 (incl. I'M SO LONESOME I COULD CRY). Then from the beginning of 1950 on, it's all Don Helms. In 1950, he played on some of the "Luke the Drifter" tracks, and songs including WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME, NOBODY'S LONESOME FOR ME, & COLD, COLD HEART. And not a pedal steel in the bunch.

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

Not to beat a dead horse, but here's a chronology/discography I found on line. This on has all the overdub stuff. Some of it is real good and doesn't exist on sessions HW did while alive. Angel of Death and Rockin' Chair Money are rockin'.

http://www.hankwilliamsdiscography.com/p/HWSession.html
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Lavon Chappell · From: The Heart of Dixie

Don Helms also played on the recording of Patsy Cline's walking after midnight.

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