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Topic: Acoustic tuning, what about C6 |
Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 25 Oct 2011 7:45 am |
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Hi, I play some electric lap steel, swing and country on a C6 electric lap steel and now I want to play some acoustic gig with an old acoustic square neck but I'm not sure on witch tuning. I think that C6 dont fit on acoustic but I don't have the time to learn a new tuning. Maybe a lower 6th tuning where I just have to transpose?
Thanks! |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 25 Oct 2011 7:54 am
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I have found that (for me)....C6 sounds thinner......I had a 7 string resonator with a C6 on it and I ended up changing the nut and the bridge to accommodate a G6 tuning that sounded fuller & with more body......
However, Gerald Ross's playing (on his CDs) on his Gold Tone tuned to C6.....sounds excellent..... |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 25 Oct 2011 7:56 am
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I've had good luck in the past with A6th tuning on an acoustic resonator guitar.
1. C#
2. A
3. F#
4. E
5. C#
6. A
You can use the same string gauges as you would for open G tuning. Tune the bottom three strings up a whole step and the top three strings down.
Your C6th tuning will be at the third fret if you capo.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 25 Oct 2011 8:09 am
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| A6 is really good idea and will be easy for me, have preferred string gauges? |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 25 Oct 2011 8:44 am
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| Gerald Ross sound very good on G6 to, I think will try both and see, thanks |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 25 Oct 2011 8:51 am
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I use B6 (C6 1/2 step lower) on my PB Goldtone and it works just fine. No reason to learn a new tuning unless you want lower notes than those the C6 gives you.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2011 9:52 am
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| C6/Bb works fine for me on either my Dobro 8 or my Koa/spruce 8 or my Koa/spruce 6. The tuning is (from bottom) Bb [C] E G A C E [G], with the boxed letters for the 8 string. I use this tuning for Hawaiian, Cajun, Country, and Western Swing. Be careful about sting gauges. They should be heavier than electric guitars. For instance, I use an .014 for the high G on my Dobros and an .012 on my electric steels. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 25 Oct 2011 11:44 am
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| John Aldrich wrote: |
| Be careful about sting gauges. They should be heavier than electric guitars. For instance, I use an .014 for the high G on my Dobros and an .012 on my electric steels. |
I've actually always wondered about this. I've tried the really heavy gauges on my Goldtone but found that lighter gauges (the same as I use on electric) seem to allow the guitar to "breathe" better and increases sustain. Of course, YMMV!
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2011 11:04 am
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I am happy with my acoustic tuned to C6/A7 as follows:
1 E
2 C
3 A
4 G
5 E
6 C#
_________________
Carter D12, MSA S12, 12 String Custom Made Non-Pedal, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 26 Oct 2011 11:09 am
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So Robbie you tune it like an electric? what strings do you use? You don't find that you dont have enough bottom? What kind of acoustic?
thanks |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2011 12:39 pm
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I don't play bluegrass licks on my acoustic. I just want an acoustic sound for certain arrangements. I seem to have plenty of bottom that I need when I use the A7 side tuning. I am probably one of the many unusuals that appear in the steel guitar world. That is what makes steel guitar so unique.
_________________
Carter D12, MSA S12, 12 String Custom Made Non-Pedal, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 20 Nov 2011 3:42 pm
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Finally I have tuned the guitar on C6 and it sound good to me, maybe with an 8 strings I would be able to had a A and E bass string for a more bluesy sound.
Something like :
E
C
A
G
E
C#
A
E |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2011 5:04 pm
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That's how I would do it. Looks good
_________________
Carter D12, MSA S12, 12 String Custom Made Non-Pedal, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 21 Nov 2011 5:09 pm
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I started using G6 (BDEGBD) on my resonator guitar a little time ago...
Coming from C6 lapsteel, the regular bluegrass dobro tuning (GBDGBD) just didn't feel comfortable for me, missed that 6th that allows to play full minor triads with a straight bar; so I restrung it like the 6 top strings of an 8-string C6, but transposed to G - and I couldn't be happier, love that tuning. |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 6:20 am
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Thank you Steve for the video, they are greath.
Since I would really like to have a blues sound and be able to play western swing and bluegrass, everything in fact! I will look for a 8 strings and experiment with G6. |
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 7:33 am
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| The nice thing about that G6 is that by just raising two strings a bit, you get E7 (BDEG#BE) - which should be great for bluesy playing. |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 3:17 pm
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| Roman Sonnleitner wrote: |
I started using G6 (BDEGBD) on my resonator guitar a little time ago...
Coming from C6 lapsteel, the regular bluegrass dobro tuning (GBDGBD) just didn't feel comfortable for me, missed that 6th that allows to play full minor triads with a straight bar; so I restrung it like the 6 top strings of an 8-string C6, but transposed to G - and I couldn't be happier, love that tuning. |
So I guess you tune your 8 string to the "high" C6th tuning (with the 5th/G on top). For those people who don't play the high C6th tuning, it might be easier to picture it as the typical A6th tuning lowered 2 frets:
| Code: |
A6 - 2 frets = G6
6 5 4 3 2 1
A6 C# E F# A C# E
G6 B D E G B D
3 5 6 R 3 5 |
I think that G6 probably works better on a resonator than A6, being 2 frets lower. Thanks for sharing that with us. (Your 3 top strings are the same as high bass G dobro tuning which should make it easier to migrate from open G to G6 if someone is so inclined.)
Steve
P.S I like your trick of converting G6 to E7th. For a steel tuned to A6 you could raise the 1st string two frets and the 3rd string one fret to get F#7. (It might be a good idea to use an .014 rather than an .015 for the 1st string if you intend to raise to it to F#7.) Here is how you can go from C6th to A6th to F#7 on a lap steel:
| Code: |
C6 -> A6 -> F#7
6 5 4 3 2 1
C6 C E G A C E
A6 C# E F# A C# E
F#7 C# E F# A# C# F#
5 b7 R 3 5 R
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_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 22 Nov 2011 3:41 pm
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| Yep, "high" C6 (ACEGACEG) is what I use on my 8-string lap steel; never felt comfortable with bluegass Open G (GBDGBD) when I started playing Dobro - did some experimenting, that's how I ended up with G6; while I figured that one out by myself - I found out that quite a few people had already been using that one when I did a search here on the forum - that's also where I stumbled across that E7 "trick"... |
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Hiro Keitora
From:
New York, New York
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Posted 25 Nov 2011 10:32 am
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So Roman, your bottom BDE, are you using same gauge of the strings as Open G Dobro?
I tried GBDEGB but I missed the top, I like to try your G6 but affraid to break bottom strings--- |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 25 Nov 2011 3:02 pm
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| Hiro Keitora wrote: |
| I tried GBDEGB but I missed the top, I like to try your G6 but affraid to break bottom strings--- |
The string gauge chart and article on John Ely's site is very helpful if you are going to use non-standard tunings (tunings that do not correspond to string sets sold here and elsewhere). For a resonator guitar you would probably use strings a little bit heavier than those specified by the chart- the article explains how to adapt the chart for your own needs.
One problem with using alternate tunings on resonator guitar is the availability of appropriate single strings in a complete range of string gauges (even and odd up to .018, even only from .020 to something like .060). For electric guitar (regular or lap steel) there are Ernie Ball strings available in all of those gauges; D'Addario makes XL Nickel Wound single steel strings in those gauges that can be used for acoustic as well as electric.
However players of acoustic and resonator guitars often prefer the strings intended especially for acoustic- like the ones that are wrapped with 80/20 bronze or phosphor bronze. A Google search might turn up what you are looking for although a better bet might be to check with a company that specializes in strings.
One rather expensive alternative is to buy several different acoustic string sets, just using the gauges that you are looking for. I had to buy 5 sets of Martin Marquis phosphor bronze strings to get the specific wound strings I needed for 2 W-style hollow neck acoustic Hawaiians that I tuned to C6th and E9th. Ouch!
IMO plain strings are pretty much the same with the main difference being in how they are wrapped around the ball end; a good quality plain string for electric should work well on acoustic. (Martin Marquis sets do include "silvered steel" plain strings although I don't know what the difference is.)
The article:
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.php
The chart:
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/graphics/pdf/string_gauge_chart.pdf
HTH
Steve Ahola
P.S. You could use a regular set of high bass G strings (GBDGBD) *but* you would have to discard the 6th string, move the 4th and 5th strings down one slot *and* add an extra 4th string for the E (or another string slightly lighter)
| Code: |
G G6
D(1) = D(1)
B(2) = B(2)
G(3) = G(3)
D(4) -> E(4) & D(5)
B(5) -> B(6)
G(6) (not used)
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EDIT JustStrings sells John Pearse 80/20 and phosphor bronze strings for $1.65 to $2.50 each Or you can buy their generic strings in bulk with a dozen of each gauge selling for $8 to $10. So a dozen of the 4 wound strings you needed would be maybe $40. If you need to add something to the order to make it cost-effective I recommend their Aroma clip-on guitar tuner for $14 (their USPS first class or priority shipping is $6.95 for any size order.)
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits
Last edited by Steve Ahola on 25 Nov 2011 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hiro Keitora
From:
New York, New York
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Posted 25 Nov 2011 3:35 pm
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ah, cool, so I need to hunt for that "E" string--
hmmm... 
<H> |
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 25 Nov 2011 4:24 pm
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| Hiro Keitora wrote: |
So Roman, your bottom BDE, are you using same gauge of the strings as Open G Dobro?
I tried GBDEGB but I missed the top, I like to try your G6 but affraid to break bottom strings--- |
Well, Steve already answered the question, basically...
I do the same he recommended: I don't use the bottom string from a GBDGBD set, and use the low B&D for the 5th and 6th strings; I then add an extra E string.
I play with a loud band, so my dobro is usually amplified; I've got a Lace Sensor magnetic pickup on it, that's why I don't use "acoustic" phosphor-bronze strings - I use these pure nickel GHS dobro strings: http://www.thomann.de/gb/ghs_1600_jdouglas.htm - and simply add a .032 from an electric guitar string set for the 4th/E-string.
I personally like the warm, full tone from these nickel strings (esp. since I always play amplified with the band) - if you are looking for ultimate brightness, brilliance and "zing" for unamplified playing, those might not be the right strings for you, though... |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 26 Nov 2011 12:14 am
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Roman- Thanks for your recommendations! For some inexpensive electric/acoustic resonator strings MF is selling the Martin M-980 Bluegrass resonator sets for under $4.00- you get their nickel wound .056, .046, .036 and .026 strings, along with their unwound .016 and .018 strings. I've gone through about 6 or 7 of these sets for lap steels, using them as singles mainly to test out tunings. (If I like the tuning on a particular steel I will put more expensive strings on it.)
Looking at John Ely's chart the M980 set would be good for open D (vestapol) tuning: D A D F# A D or a low bass open G: D G D G B D. Although I've had good results using them for open E on lap steels that can handle the extra tension.
Steve
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Former Member
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 4:28 pm
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I'm kinda confused!
Brad uses A6th 1 2 3 4 5 6
C# A F# E C# A
Tuned down 1 whole step to G6th..
1 2 3 4 5 6
B G E D B G
Steve's A6th 1 2 3 4 5 6
E C# A F# E C#
Tuned down 1 whole step to G6th..
1 2 3 4 5 6
D B G E D B
When I look at these other tunings for G6th, the string/note positions keep changing. I guess with the same notes even in another order, you have the same tuning, except that it won't work if you're playing off some TAB'd songs...
Or am I missing something?? (a real dope when it comes to this stuff) |
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