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Topic: Volume pedal hum |
Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 22 Sep 2011 5:32 am |
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Hi all, the title of the post may be misleading since for all I know my Hilton pedal functions as it's supposed to, but here it is.
It seems that any effect pedal plugged AFTER the Hilton volume pedal generates a fairly loud hum. Pedals plugged before the Hilton are dead quiet. I got the same results with various pedals and various power sources. The thing, many effects such as delays and reverbs are MUCH more useful post-volume pedal. I'm wondering if anyone has ran into the same problem and if there's a solution.
Last edited by Alex Cattaneo on 1 Dec 2011 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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J Hollenberg
From:
Vlaardingen, The Netherlands
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Posted 22 Sep 2011 7:12 am
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I have a Hardwire RV-7 and a DL-8 after the Hilton volume pedal and i have no hum at all.
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Sjaak Hollenberg
Emmons Lashley LeGrande SD10 from 1993 |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2011 9:21 am
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Just call Hilton and he will take care of ya
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Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2011 9:43 am
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I run a RV-3 after mine with no probs.
Also have run some other effects.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 22 Sep 2011 10:55 am
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| Thanks guys. Are you using your deals with a power adapter or with a battery? |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2011 3:11 pm
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Adapter
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 22 Sep 2011 7:56 pm
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Alex, thanks for using a Hilton pedal. Many of the cheap effect boxes are designed to see the low level signal of a guitar's magnetic pickup. Anything powered in the signal chain, even battery powered, produces a signal much stronger than a guitar's magnetic pickup. Many of these cheap effect boxes act up when put after a powered device in the signal chain. More expensive, and better designed effect units will accept either a low level magnetic pickup signal, or a stronger level pre-amped signal. A pre-amped signal being a signal up to about one volt. A magnetic pickup signal is in the mili-volt range. I don't want to get too techinical and lose you, but it takes 1000 mili-volts to make one volt. If you experience distortion from an effect box put in the signal chain "after a powered device", you need to put the effect box before the powered device. There can be great differences in the same type of effect box. For example: I have seen a Holy Grail Reverb box distort when put after a powered device. I have seen other Holy Grail Reverb boxes that "would not" distort when put after a powered device.
So there can be great tolerance to input distortion between individual effect box units of the same kind. Many of the parts installed in these cheap effect boxes have a parts tolerance of plus or minus 20%. I personally feel the root of the problem is poor engineering design in some of these effect boxes. Many of them are new digital designs, designed by engineers who know little about music, or the way musicians eventually hook up their equipment. Of course, that is just my opinion. I am certain the designers of these cheap effect boxes, usually made in China, would try to convince you they knew everything about everything! Hope this information helps. |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 22 Sep 2011 9:09 pm
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Hi Keith, so glad to hear from you. The two boxes I used for my test were Neunaber's WET reverb, and MJM's Britbender (germanium fuzz). Both are expensive boutique pedals made by people with excellent reputation. They didn't really distort, as in input clipping, but rather they seemed to generate some sort of ground loop. The hum came automatically, without even playing the steel. Same pedals with the same adapters were dead quiet when hooked up before the Hilton. I was going to try various things tomorrow, such has using a battery to power the pedals, and trying other pedals. I didn't try using a ground lift because the power adapters are all two-prong so there nothing to lift...
I have two outputs on my Hilton pedal and I'm using only one of them, no tuner patched anywhere in the signal chain. |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 23 Sep 2011 6:38 am
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| Interesting Alex. Ground loop problems are sometimes very difficult to solve. Let me tell you about a ground loop problem I had several years ago. By telling you about this ground loop problem, you might understand how difficult they can be. I was testing pedals in my shop and experienced a hum. I did all the normal things to remove the hum, like move the location of the power suppllies, and check for any florescent lights. By trial and error I finally figured out what was causing the problem, but I never did figure out why. The leg of my steel guitar was touching the painted edge of a baseboard heater. The heater was turned off. I could not understand how the leg of my steel could conduct with the "PAINTED" metal of the baseboard heater---BUT IT DID. The other thing that blew my mind was both the baseboard heater and everything else I was using was grounded to the same electric circuit. The hum went away when I move the guitar and the metal leg of the steel no longer touched the baseboard heater. Strange but true! Back to your problem Alex. Make sure all the wall warts are not near guitar cords. Try plugging everything into one grounded power strip. Plugging everything into the same ground creates what is known as a "STAR" ground. A "STAR" ground is one of the best methods of eliminating hum. Hope this information helps. |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 23 Sep 2011 7:02 am
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Fascinating stuff, isn't it? My buddy gets a ground loop when his Peterson is in the "tuner out" of his Hilton pedal. It goes away if he unplugs the tuner or if he ground lifts it...
I'm gonna run various tests this afternoon and will report the results. Thanks! |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 23 Sep 2011 12:53 pm
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| Wow, that's embarrassing. The problem was caused by a faulty patch cord. For each the 1000 configurations I used, I somehow didn't realize that I was always using the same cord for everything patched AFTER the volume pedal, because it's particular length. Damn... |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 3 Oct 2011 11:17 pm
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| Alex Cattaneo wrote: |
| Wow, that's embarrassing. The problem was caused by a faulty patch cord. For each the 1000 configurations I used, I somehow didn't realize that I was always using the same cord for everything patched AFTER the volume pedal, because it's particular length. Damn... |
A few years ago I tore apart a tube amp I was building to figure out why I was getting so much hum. (And it had worked just fine the day before- go figure!) It turns out that I had grabbed an unshielded speaker cable and was using that to connect my guitar. D'oh!
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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